Originally Posted by Arliss (Post 2220280)

Disclosure: I created a new account for this post to enhance anonymity.

I'm feeling torn while considering a lateral move.

I just started at L-Xjt. Only 2 months on the line. I came here because I'm local to EWR and I had always heard great things about the contract and such. So far it has been a pleasant place to work and I do like the work rules, including things like the downtown hotels on long overnights. The training was excellent and I like that I have that on my resume. I was also lured in with the promise that things would improve drastically with the new pilot pay and CPP pulling away captains to allow upgrades (the instructors were telling us we'd be captains in 2 to 4 years).

I'm now seeing a bleaker picture from the inside. There hasn't been a vacancy bid of any kind in 5 months. We keep losing planes. Relatively few captains are getting hired through the CPP (I heard only 40% success rate). Several I've flown with have no plans to leave at all short of a shutdown.

I'm considering a lateral move and am looking at Envoy, RAH, or Endeavor. But is it a jerk move for me to bail from a company so soon after starting? Does it look bad on a resume? I'd also feel let-down since this was traditionally the place I wanted to go.

And anyone care to share their personal perspectives on these companies?

Envoy: New pay package is really great, as is the flow to American. But can reserves who want to fly expect to actually fly and break guarantee? The $20000 up front will be a great help for me, but to do what I want to do financially I'd need to be doing better than min guarantee and no per diem. My friend who works there has been a good salesman and is a believer in 2 to 3 year upgrade and 6 to 7 year flow. He tells me just to maintain the fleet with the planned flow they'd need to upgrade 300+ a year. The LGA base is good news but LGA/JFK can be a brutal drove from NJ. I've heard reserve has been running long but would drop with movement.

Endeavor: Heard it's a much better place than it used to be, great financial incentives like Envoy, NY base, possibly very short upgrade (one new captain I know there believes street captains are a possibility sometime next year). I've heard minimal reserve time.

RAH: Also heard it's vastly better than it used to be, exiting BK in a stable position, ability to be EWR based, dropping upgrade times, though they don't offer nearly the bonus money that the above are, and no flow or interview programs. I've likewise heard minimal reserve time in the junior bases.

I'm so torn. Any thoughts?

Originally Posted by RemoveB4Flight (Post 2220888)

I can't tell if you're joking or really that misinformed.

Originally Posted by Mjm8710 (Post 2221089)

Don't listen to everyone with all the "don't do lateral move bs"..it's your career, do what will make YOU happy and makes the most sense. Plus, going to a major isn't a guarantee for anyone so make sure you're at some place you're comfortable "just in case" or can at least see yourself awhile. Look how it's worked with a lot of guys you fly with, they still haven't received calls and have been at the company for decades.

Most people don't realize unless they've been to Xjt, you are at the bottom of the seniority list for a long time, considering how long upgrade is. You haven't even invested much time there yet so it might be worth the jump for better QOL..trust me I understand. Hell after 2-2.5 years there I was still on reserve in ORD and was looking at 8 year upgrade (I know it's down a little now), constant doom and gloom every day I went to work while we bled airplanes and 120 FOs a month...everyone seemed miserable when I would show up at work. Best decision I've ever made making the switch. Job is much more enjoyable now and feels "stable". Not bashing Xjt because I did enjoy certain aspects but I understand where you're coming from.

Originally Posted by ClickClickBoom (Post 2221175)

Make probation, then do what's best for you and your's. The industry is on fire, and every month you wait is 60-100 seniority numbers hired at a major before you. Don't get comfy stay hungry, update your resume and online stuff weekly. Go to work for a TSA subsidiary, there will be plenty of motivation. This is truly a million dollar question for a younger guy....

Originally Posted by Happyflyer (Post 2221558)

Why would I be joking? Maybe the short upgrade predictions. Any mainline recruiter would detests you leaving after only a few months. They would accuse you of doing that to them. They don't see a nickels difference between all of them.
If you can explain yourself then it would be ok, but getting a bad base, pay and benefits, or poor seniority progression wouldn't cut it. Certainly not after only a few months.

Originally Posted by jacburn (Post 2221142)

Upgrade is down from 8 years? I am a 9 year FO that still can't upgrade. I see it being at least 10 years at this point before I have enough seniority to upgrade. That is if the doors are still open and there are any planes left after 2018.

Originally Posted by Arliss (Post 2220280)

Disclosure: I created a new account for this post to enhance anonymity.

I'm feeling torn while considering a lateral move.

I just started at L-Xjt. Only 2 months on the line. I came here because I'm local to EWR and I had always heard great things about the contract and such. So far it has been a pleasant place to work and I do like the work rules, including things like the downtown hotels on long overnights. The training was excellent and I like that I have that on my resume. I was also lured in with the promise that things would improve drastically with the new pilot pay and CPP pulling away captains to allow upgrades (the instructors were telling us we'd be captains in 2 to 4 years).

I'm now seeing a bleaker picture from the inside. There hasn't been a vacancy bid of any kind in 5 months. We keep losing planes. Relatively few captains are getting hired through the CPP (I heard only 40% success rate). Several I've flown with have no plans to leave at all short of a shutdown.

I'm considering a lateral move and am looking at Envoy, RAH, or Endeavor. But is it a jerk move for me to bail from a company so soon after starting? Does it look bad on a resume? I'd also feel let-down since this was traditionally the place I wanted to go.

And anyone care to share their personal perspectives on these companies?

Envoy: New pay package is really great, as is the flow to American. But can reserves who want to fly expect to actually fly and break guarantee? The $20000 up front will be a great help for me, but to do what I want to do financially I'd need to be doing better than min guarantee and no per diem. My friend who works there has been a good salesman and is a believer in 2 to 3 year upgrade and 6 to 7 year flow. He tells me just to maintain the fleet with the planned flow they'd need to upgrade 300+ a year. The LGA base is good news but LGA/JFK can be a brutal drove from NJ. I've heard reserve has been running long but would drop with movement.

Endeavor: Heard it's a much better place than it used to be, great financial incentives like Envoy, NY base, possibly very short upgrade (one new captain I know there believes street captains are a possibility sometime next year). I've heard minimal reserve time.

RAH: Also heard it's vastly better than it used to be, exiting BK in a stable position, ability to be EWR based, dropping upgrade times, though they don't offer nearly the bonus money that the above are, and no flow or interview programs. I've likewise heard minimal reserve time in the junior bases.

I'm so torn. Any thoughts?