Is regional QOL still bad?
 

I'm a 36 year old with no flying experience considering a career change. I started a thread with full details (please share any feedback or advice).

I watched a news segment from 2011 (here's a link to the Youtube video) Takeaway: Pilots who work for regionals (especially those who commute) are completely fatigued, earn terrible pay, spend multiple nights per month in crashpads, and some even sleep in airline staff lounges.

Have conditions for regional pilots improved since the 2011 news segment? Or, is working for a regional still a terrible QOL? I'm 36 and willing to tolerate some discomfort for long term reward. But, I wouldn't want to tolerate what was depicted in that news segment.

I think that reading the regional forums right now would answer some of those questions. There are good discussions on the Envoy and PSA right now about schedules.

But the single fact that the starting pay at the AA wholly owned regionals is almost $60k a year now, you can see that many of those things have changed. The rules on flight hours have also changed (read about part 117).

Becoming a pilot has always been a long term view job. Even longer than Doctor (who will make quite a bit more money but have quite a bit lower QOL).

Yes you'll have to spend many nights in crashpads if you commute. If you are on reserve for say 6 months you're looking at (at most shops) being gone either sitting in the pad or on a trip 18 days a month.

There is no way to sugar coat it. The job is 100% travel. If you aren't prepared for that portion of the job, being an airline pilot isn't in the cards. You can keep asking the same question in different ways over and over and that won't change the job description.

The difference is nowadays most shops are paying low $40's to start with some hitting close to $60k your first year. That is a HUGE jump from where things were just a year or two ago.

I'm only at my second year at a regional. I live in base. I initially commuted for two months before I got awarded a base where I live. This month I will spend 7 nights total away from home, 0 nights in a crashpad, and my wage is livable (still feel underpaid though).

Overall, there is always room for improvement and I know that QOL will improve with seniority and longevity, and hopefully I can get on with a major sometime in the future, but my QOL is better now than when I was in the military and better than when I was a flight instructor.

Overall, I really enjoy the job and it's the best job that I've had so far. I enjoy the traveling aspect, I like the variations in schedule, and I haven't missed a birthday yet (I missed thanksgiving last year but I got Christmas off).

Unless you live in base, you're most likely going to be commuting to reserve for at least the first few months. You're probably going to want a crashpad to avoid piling up hotel costs. I've been in 3 different crashpads and from my experience they vary greatly. If you can find one with just pilots, it's typically going to be a lot better.

If you have a manageable commute with a lot of frequency and not all the way across the country, it will be far less fatiguing. Also, part 117 rest rules since that article really made a big impact on schedules and lengths of overnights. Finally, when I first started I barely cleared $20k my first year and now most places are well north of $50k. It's definitely not all roses and butterflies but it has gotten a lot better in the 3 years I've been around.

First off, yes, pay and QOL are definantly improving...and keep improving.

My biggest advice, look past the whole "flying airplanes" for a living and think about the career in terms of travel. Like someone else mentioned above, the job is 100% traveling...not gone as long as a truck driver, but realize it's a big sacrifice you'll be making.

When I first started, I was so excited to fly a jet, and to be apart of an airline, but really didn't think about how long I'd be gone from home, the holidays I'd be missing, long days at crowded airports. Flying the plane is only part of the "job" you sign up for..the other part is sitting in hotels, airports, commuting, sitting in the back as a passenger flying around the country half the day, and being on-call if you're on reserve..It was a HUGE adjustment at first, but I'm use to it now and enjoy it..been to a lot of cool places and met some really good people along the way and living out of my bag and having to wear the same thing everyday at work makes life feel easier-at least for me. QOL at the regionals all depends on seniority and company you're at and whether you commute or not. At my current company, I'm home a lot on reserve which is great, but again, I'm living in base. If you commute, plan on being away from home a majority of the month so pick an airline where you can be based at home for best QOL.

Overall, I'm happy with my decision going to the airlines, just make sure you weigh everything (not just flying airplanes), do lots of research on the companies you'll be applying to, and ask lots of questions! Good luck.

Tl;dr. Not as bad as it was in the golden days of RJ flying. It's on the up and up. Still not great and no where near major quality.

Here is a simple test.

You will likely be away from home for 5-6 weeks in a row for initial training. If this seems like a lot for you, and this would be painful, aviation is the wrong field.

Thank you all for the replies.

It seems like everyone's path is different. From reading content on this forum, it's difficult to tell how many days an entry level regional FO will be away from home if they have to commute. Some people say 18 days p/m away, others say 24 days away. 24 is a lot more days away than 18.

Does anyone have any answers to how many days away I should really expect as a new FO? Or, is path ambiguity just something I'll need to accept?

As a new FO you can expect to have 12 days off. When you are junior you will have to commute in the day before and usually the day after a trip so this cuts down on your home time.

What city do you live in? Live in base.

Denver. Do you think there are enough Denver based options that I could avoid commuting?

Yes. You may have to commute initially but there are definitely options. Things are ALWAYS changing.

I got hired at a regional a year and a half ago and I commuted for two months before getting Denver. Several friends got hired at the same airline a few months after me and they got Denver before even finishing training. A few months later, guys aren't getting Denver until a few months out of training. It's always changing and timing is everything but you just gotta go with the flow and make the best of it.

Just so you know. I spent roughly 220 days in a hotel last year. Seems you are really on the fence about being away a lot. and that number is just for work. With commuting. I could add on another 25-30 days to that. So you're looking about 250 days away from home. As a rough estimate. But I would say that's pretty accurate. Also if you live in Denver. Try and get on with Skywest. You might only need to commute for a few monthes maybe before you can get Denver. Then just drive to work.

Everyone's situation will vary. In the last 12 months I've had about 200 working days and spent 156 nights in hotels on trips (including commute related nights).
I don't drop or pickup trips for the most part. Credit low 90s each month.
I feel that although improvements can always be made, I do enjoy my job and believe I have fairly good QOL.

Life is good here at the regionals. With the bar set low in regards to expectations, anything more is gravy.

Denver can be a tough place to live if you're a pilot. There are a bunch of options, but they're pretty senior typically. Skywest would be a good option for you right now, but the landscape is going to change drastically in a few years when you get through training and have the time.

I'm a little younger than you, but took the leap into this as a second career back in 2011. I also live in Denver. Feel free to PM me if you want some more info about the path I took.

I have been with the airlines a long time and the number one rule for me; Don't commute!
Commuted for 6-7 months when I first got hired , then decided to live in base. Best decision I ever made.

Yes...........it is.

Except at envoy, our new hires are making more, but everyone else is stagnant, our bonuses make up for what we lose in credit hrs a month, right now most lines are 75ish hrs. Unfortunately for a family, our insurance went up roughly $1400 this yr, so I guess we are losing money.

Envoy 4 days (that's all we have on the crj), range from 11-18 hrs, a normal trip is
4-5-4-3(legs), or a 4 day where you have a 30hr layover for day 3, then a 5 am report with 5 legs on day 4, and you credit 15-17 for one those doozies.

Why so much?

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That's an exceptionally large amount of time in hotels.
Did you never have vacation and only get min days off?

12 days off x 12 months = 144 days at home.
365-220=145


Sorry, but unless I am missing something, that math is suspect.

Did you work over your vacation?

You stated you weren't even including your commuting days, so that's out.
How did you manage this?

He works at the Days Inn Chester.

I commute and have a typical 4-on 3-off schedule. As long as the trips are commmutable (they usually are for me), that equates to 4 night in my own bed every week, and 3 in a hotel. I've commuted for 10 years now...I can't imagine how amazing living in base would be, but I feel like I don't have it that bad.

I didn't count my days. I just figured working 18 days a month for a year. Forgot to factor in vacation and stuff. Guess it felt like it was that much

If you're not going to post accurately, don't post. No point in leading the guy astray.
That said, I do believe that it might have felt like that much time away. :D
Life at regionals is not great, but it has gotten better, and if you live in domicile, it's usually a pretty good job. However, we should all be mainline employees with one level of safety, training and seniority...

I think there are too many variables to answer this question. But here goes...

If you live in Denver and are a "Denver person" in that you enjoy the mountains all year, enjoy good Colorado craft beer or just don't see yourself moving to a different city then Skywest or Boutique is the best option.

I made the mistake of going to Republic, which at the time had a Denver base. The base has since closed 3 times which left me commuting for 7 years so far. During that commute, because of our base distribution/geography I've only been above 1/2 up a base for a few months in 9 years (~4 months). That said, I never chased the junior base because they were always a 3.5-4 hour flight from DEN.

I upgraded as a FO on reserve at 6.5 years to a CA commuting to reserve. So I upgraded in 2013 after my last two years of reserve and I've been on reserve since (with some lines during months where I got lucky). During bad months I would spend 24 days a month in the airport. Most months I would spend around 20 days in the airport. This is mainly due to non-commutable reserve start times and non-commutable trip finishes.

So as you'll see elsewhere I would chose living in base over pay. I'd also look at upgrade time to the base you live in. I don't know about other companies but movement on our CA list is WAY WAY slower. I've been the same relative seniority in my base for 6 years between my last two locations.

Guaranteed your mileage will vary. This is just a snapshot of one person's experience with regional QoL. There are people at my company that have always enjoyed 14+ days off a month and never really sat reserve. So just understand what can happen.

If you are making good money and have everything that you want, why would you ruin it to become an airline pilot? Have a teary eyed emotion about it? Well, get your private pilots license first, and take it from there. If it's something you must do, then you gotta do it. Perhaps after you get you private pilots license, your perspective will change. Approach this with logic, not emotion.

Really- this job is all about the crew you're flying with, the overnights (how long, how good), and your own attitude.

Good crew + 20 hours in Ottawa in the spring + my good attitude because of the first two things and the job kicks ass.

****ty crew + 30 hours in Augusta with nothing around but a Waffle House and a mini mart + my bad attitude because of the first 2 things and I want to slit my wrists.

My airline doesn't have long/short hotels, and most of our overnights suck. I call it "paying my dues", we can't start our careers by flying one leg to Tokyo for the 30 hour overnight.
Just realize, sometimes it's fun, and sometimes it sucks- kinda like life.

Lengthwise, not across...

Thank you all for your feedback and advice.

Follow up question:
In this current environment, how likely do you think it would be for a newly minted 1,500 ATP to get a regional FO job, at a reputable airline (i.e. not Great Lakes) with a base in DEN in a reasonable amount of time (i.e. less than 3 months)? 20% chance? 50% chance?

*Yes, I recognize this question is highly subjective and difficult to answer. Please give it your best shot.

Took me six months at Skywest