I don't have to accuse him of anything. If someone chooses to put in the time to educate themselves by reading for a few days they'll get the info they want.

Unfortunately for the PSA recruiters that info doesn't alway jive with what they're saying. I'm not going to waste my time rehashing all of it. It's been done before.

Ok I gotta ask what is a WO.

It's an acronym for "wholly owned" and refers to regional airlines that are 100 percent owned by a legacy carrier. So in essence the WO airlines are a subsidiary of the major airline parent.

In essence we are mainline pilots. Ahhhh I said it. I feel so good now.

Hahaha.. i just pooped myself.. thanks for the laugh.. I'm a mainline fo.. flying a turbo prop..

Are you serious.. Is there a difference between the flying of a regional aircraft and a mainline aircraft? Is the flying any different? Different systems? Different passengers?

So a newbie is safer after being pic on a regional aircraft and than they are qualified to be an fo on mainline aircraft? I flew checks for a long time.. At no time did that flying make me a better 121 pilot.. If anything it gave me many hazardous attitudes, that I thought was apart of being a pilot...

My comapany has worked hard to have the same level of training and sops as our parent company, therefore if you qualify as an fo at my company there should be no reason you can't qualify on the mainline aircraft.

That is a rather bold statement.

There is a great deal wrong with this statement.

The systems of a new CRJ or ERJ are just as complex as a mainline jet, if not more in some cases. The Nexgen 900 or 175 are more complex than older 737s.

Regional pilots fly in the same airspace, with the same complexities. RNAV arrivals/departures. CatII approaches. Flying into ORD/ATL/LAX/LGA/DCA. We are doing the same job.

Some of the FO's that are going straight to the majors have been FOs for the better part of a decade. They are certainly better qualified to be a mainline pilot than some guy flying checks in a Navajo.

To answer the initial question in this thread, I doubt that the airlines will purposefully cannibalize their own regionals. But, I think that they will cannibalize each others regionals.

Delta is hiring 120 pilots a month for the next 6+ years. Imagine the damage they would do to an AA WO if Delta were to hire a few hundred from them in a couple months. They could hire every LCA that the WO have in 2 months, or they could hire 25% of all PDT pilots. That would essentially cripple the regional feed of their competitor.

So if you work for a WO like envoy for 5 years and flow to AA does your years of service at Envoy count? So will you be a FO at AA at 6 years or 1 year when u first start?


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Year 1. It starts over again.

(I think the original 824 at Envoy might have some sort of a deal - vacation maybe? Someone from Envoy can tell you about that, but as a new hire, you get nothing special when you go to AA as of right now.)

And, just to add 100% pure speculation to this... it has been speculated by many that as a means to stem attrition at the WOs in the future and as a recruiting tool, AAG may start offering longevity pay beginning with your DoH at the WO when you flow to mainline. I have no clue how they would work that out between APA/ALPA etc but I've certainly heard that rumor floated quite a bit. I personally do not believe a staple or absorption of the WOs by mainline will ever happen, but longevity pay seems plausible.

Vacation from original doh at Eagle, and carried over sick time.

I knew it was something like that. That is just for the 824, correct?

New hires do not currently receive anything like this if I am reading it correctly.

Thanks. I was just wondering and couldn't find the answer anywhere.


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It's in Ohio.

Correct.

10 chars

Why does this topic keep coming up? The flow rates that are currently in place are around 1% per month. Envoy is flowing 1.6% this month and for the next few months then it will drop to 1.4% if the pilot group stays the same size.

AAG has many other tools to attract new hires to its regional carriers other than offering more money. The announcement of express jets 145s coming back to Envoy in DFW poached some junior pilots from them. I hate to see those guys leave. They are some good guys and always were great when I had to DH on them or vice versa. Everyone wishes MESA was out instead of express jet.

Genuine question here, and I honestly don't mean to come across as unsympathetic here (I've been at two companies that have closed the doors before so I know how it feels).

How would things realistically play out with the WO if the likes of AWAC and Mesa can no longer staff their aircraft? Would the WO's simply absorb those bases and flying and crew?

On one hand when it happened to me in the helicopter world I just did a patch change, kept my equivalent seniority and actually got a pay rise. The other time we weren't so lucky.

I don't think that either will be bought. AWAC seems to be getting wound down "organically". Slowly retiring aircraft while the WOs increase flying to cover the loss of AWAC flying. As for Mesa I'm not too sure. Mesa is in trouble, no doubt, but as I see it, none of the WOs are in a great position to just start picking up that flying in the next year. 2018 and beyond, perhaps? But that will still require the WOs to maintain steady staffing levels which despite increased pay and flow, will eventually be a huge challenge. I see Mesa going through some manner of bankruptcy to try and renegotiate contracts not unlike Republic. But Mesa is also in a completely different position than Republic was, so it may not work the same way for them.

Very valid point

Wouldn't we start to see this trend already? Do the people doing the hiring even take regional feed into their decision to hire someone?

It was a comment that was made about 3 months ago that said it was possible for them to hurt eachother.

We have since lost quite a few to Delta. In fact, we have sent more to Delta than AA in a couple of the last 3 months.