Captain Pay
 

Wondering if you could give me a relistic number for captain pay. Is 100k possible or is that more on the upper end.

Easily possible, even as a regional captain. Upper end would be mid 100s and up. Unless you're at an outfit like Mesa or somewhere comparable. Then I'd say 100 would be the upper end.

Just depends on how much time you are willing to invest in a second class career at the regionals. You can make that as a captain with enough longevity at most regionals (if they even exist in several years) or you could strive for a legacy and make that as an FO within a couple of years.

Not that I have a desire to stay at the regionals but why call them a "second class career." It's the same as any other job flying a plane and getting a check.

Have you compared your current pay scale to an equivalent spot at DAL or FDX or UPS lately? Have you considered that you can work at a regional for 10 years, and get all that experience and skills, the same as the guy at Delta who worked for the same 10 years, and make a third (or less) than said Delta pilot, and when your lucky straw is drawn to move up, all those skills and experience equal zero, and you start out at the bottom again?

Well, he does work for Mesa, so there's that.

Some people don't value themselves only by what their
W2 says.

A few captains at my company with 10 years at the company have recently told me that they make around $120,000 per year. A 17 year captain told me he made $160,000. We do have a very senior captain who works like crazy and makes $200,000 but he works really really hard. A few junior captains with about 6 years and holding a line are just breaking the 6 figure mark.

11 year SkyWest LCA, 145k.

When flying at the regional level, you are merely a sub contractor. The mainline partner can yank "your" flying at anytime and leave you on the street holding your hat.

This is entirely realistic at SKW. If you need $120K at four years, become a LCA (It's more work, you'll earn it).

Not likely to happen to any of the larger players in the near/mid-term.

Business is booming, and there's a pilot shortage at the bottom end. If any major kissed off one of their large regional partners, that partner would probably just turn around and fly for a competitor.

The more likely doomsday scenario would be pilot shortage at mainline such that they systematically drew down their regionals with some kind of flow to get the pilots over to mainline. But that's a ways off if ever.

THIS
In addition (IMHO) the pilots who think regionals are only a stepping stone, a place to build PIC turbine time and GTFO without regards for increasing better work rules & pay for their carrier. Those pilots are deservice to our profession and industry.

Even at the FFD or WO level, the union & pilot group should stay strong, fighting for every increase pay & QOL possible.

Ranting... for example Mesa ALPA MEC and union folks saying the company can't afford increases in pay & QOL yet remain competitive. LOAD OF CRAP!

The same Union representing mainline can't fully fight and represent FFD pilots interest equally (IMHO). Million being left at the table by unskilled negotiators at the FFD & WO'd still.

Obviously the pilot (pay) shortage has been in our favor at the regional level. I see so many 40 & 50 yr olds entering / re-entering the 121regionals now.

This is not the regional industry of 1990's or early 2000's.

50 seater Jets & 76 seater Jets have flooded the market. FFDs & WOs need & must demand increase QOL & Pay.

We're not in Kansas anymore Dorothy...

Beat me to it! Until your paycheck matches the paint on the airplane you will always be at risk for losing flying. In addition to that a group of subcontractors will never truly have the upper hand in contract negotiations.

This seems that way. But its like speaking defeat before the battle even begins. So, what's the point of even showing up to the battle? Is it all for show? I doubt it. There are always suprises. Especially when your in high demand vs expendable.

100% agree. I forgot to finish that last sentence with "when compared to mainline pilot groups."

People who want the same things we all want (better QoL, better pay, less time spent working) are all about getting it for themselves, and care not as much about sharing it with others. It's human nature. If they allow us to have what they have, then we become the competition, not the support structure that feeds them.

Regional pilots will never achieve what mainline pilots have until regional pilots win the struggle to become mainline pilots. Mainline pilots will not give of what they have so that you can have better. It's not a defeatist attitude, it's reality.

Mainline pilots don't need to give of what they have for regional pilots to increase their standards of living. Regional pilots can fight for and win substantial gains in today's environment simply because there are not very many of them. This has little or nothing to do with mainline union policy. The mainline unions become important when there is a glut of regional pilots and their management is looking for ways to exploit that glut.

Correct. The regionals exist only to reduce costs. If regional pilots were in a position to demand and get mainline wages, the regional airlines would go away and the flying would be brought in-house.

But not all regional flying can be done economically for mainline wages, some of it (specifically 50-seaters) would just go away in that case.

Correct, relatively cheap subcontractor. Just like most sectors of industry.

If your theory is correct, tell me how we go about changing the current scope of flying we have?

That's not the issue to which I was referring. What I took from your post was the idea that gains in QOL, pay, etc. are pointless and nigh impossible at the regional level. If this were true, Republic's contract which significantly improved our pay and quality of life would have not been possible. Nor would Endeavor's retention bonuses. Nor would the wave of increased pay and leverage which regional pilots are currently enjoying have happened. None of that is due to action by mainline pilots. It is all due to a lack of pilots at the regional level. If mainline were to relax scope it would exacerbate that problem. If they were to tighten it the increase in jobs at mainline would be a step in the right direction. Therefore while it is true that we have little or no control over our flying, the fact that it is not easily shifted to another carrier works in our favor. Again, in this environment. If another 2001 or 2008 happens, not so much.

Partly true.
We all have some say in how our regional airline does. Things like bogus
sick calls, customer service, Being on time to A/C to catch small problems
to make on time departures, flying "slow" to make money. These small
items can add up to increase costs. It reduces the benefit of subcontracting.

I made over $100, 000 at SkyWest last year. I'm on year 12 pay, I drop as much as I can and work as little as possible.

Amen brother!

Def possible. Looking back at my W-2 from 4 years ago I honestly do not know how I survived... On 9 year pay & made 131 flying a 37 seat turboprop until sept then switched jet. Had to grind since that flow is creeping up on me quick. Not looking fwd to the massive pay cut and rsv life, and def a commute. QOL is paramount.

Problem is regionals back in the mid 90's were 95% props with a max earnings of around 60-70k a year. Now fast foward to the 76 seat RJ's. You can earn $150k flying nice equipment... hard to leave that...

You quoted him, but you DIDNT read his post.

Correct, it's the SAME JOB, totally different career.

As evidenced by this thread, and my own career, sure you can do well as an RJ CA. Till the flying shifts, till the flying is taken away, or whatever else reason that's caused (insert regional here) to downsize or flat out go away.

But the career goes well past THE JOB.

Retirement, time off, how hard you have to work, job security, progression, choice of airframes/flying, what have you.

Not hard to leave that for a legacy. Not hard at all. Unless you're close to retirement.

but some might live in base and don't want to go to the bottom and commute. Yes you might make 50k more. But after taxes it might not be worth it. HaRd to put a price on quality of life. I personally would be happier with 120 vs 170 living in base. Now if the legacy in my base hires me then that's another story. Of course age has a big factor in all this too

I can never understand this thought process. I was with SkyWest and i would fly with Captains who would say they are not going to move on to majors because they are 40+ and have good seniority and pay etc.. im with United now and i dont want to come off as an a**hole im just trying to get my point across that not only is pay better only 2 years in but EVERYTHING is better. In training they take you out pretty much every night during indoc. They feed you good meals on the plane. You get picked up in teslas and mercedes. Your retirement is amazing (an extra 16% in your 401k no matter if you contribute or not) the hotels for the most part are great and in amazing locations. My seniority after 2 years will let me hold anything from 787 reserve to 40 percent 737 or airbus. Anyway my point is dont get sucked into QOL and pay at the regionals if your younger than 55 IMHO.

EXACTLY.

Sure, it's the same job, sort of.

But the career is waaaaaaaay different.

Never mind that the senior RJ CA for the most part is maxed out on the pay scale if all he's gonna do is fly the line. Versus the year 2/3 NB FO that's going to see major in creases in pay (AHEM, 401 also).

And for Christ's sake, assuming the chance IS THERE to move on, who wants to bag drag/cram themselves into ANY RJ and going up and down 3-4-5-6 times day and going home from a 4 day feeling (less like thanks to 117) crap?

I know.........I know.........SOMEONE is gonna chime in with "well, I'm a senior CA and I'm home every night and I make a million dollars a year flying day turns/out and backs/locals".

Sure, we ALL KNOW those guys. But they're simply NOT the majority, by any means.

AGAIN, this is all predicated on having the ability/choice to move on versus those that simply rationalize/justify why they won't.

Most of us that are stuck as lifers are well aware that the worst day at a major is still better than the best day at a regional. You just get to a point where you must accept that you're most likely not going to move up and simply deal with it. Some folks might rationalize it by bragging about how good they have it or not commuting or whatever, but we're keenly aware that we're missing out big time. My only question is, why does it bother some people so much? If someone is a loser lifer at xyz regional, how does that negatively affect you? Ignore the fools and take advantage that there's simply less competition for you to move onto a real career.

I mean your right I can't argue with that. But if you have a degree and your qualified I don't see why you would come to the conclusion that it won't happen.

More responsibility = more pay. It really is just that simple.

The unions are what let the regional airlines get away with lowballing their pilots for all of those years.

Kids and family.

Everybody knows that even a 55 y/o will probably be better off going to a legacy considering career compensation, and that his QOL at the end will be better to. But if you have young kids, taking a few years out from life to commute to reserve in LGA/JFK/EWR you'll miss the best family years.

Plenty of money and time off won't matter when the kids are 16. Well they'll appreciate the money but why would teenagers want to hang out with pops, especially since he wasn't around when they were little?

More responsibility? Or just more souls on board? Not buying it. They go to work, they fly, they go home. Their skills are the same. The only difference is the size of the equipment (hence more souls on board) and the pay. It's not like the planes get harder to fly the more you move up.

So a guy who flies a Caravan should be paid the same as the guy who flies a 747? :rolleyes:

No... it's harder to fly a Caravan.