Training Update
 

Heard that the oral pass rate is at 98% with no double failures ever since ETHOS was implemented. On the flip side, the sim washout rate is apparently still fairly high. As someone who will be heading out to St. Louis in the very near future, what are some good ways to prepare/what should I be expecting?

Go observe other sims, find a study group and chair fly/practice call outs.

does anyone know what causes most people to wash out in the sims?

Bring a bulletproof vest if you are a jogger. Better yet, bring a bulletproof covering for whatever you have that you value. Bulletproof undies maybe? Better still, do your jogging on the hotel treadmill.

There are probably some real nice areas in St Louis, but not so much around the contract hotel.

Bring a ball and throw it back and forth with your sim partner while running your flows and calls from memory. The actual airplane stuff is easy. Not remembering flows and calls when they’re task saturated is what gets people, then they get flustered, then they start making real mistakes.

Get your flows down. When you find out your sim partner, meet frequently and chair fly the profiles.

Not being able to keep up with the pace of operations and falling behind as the tasks start to add up. Sometimes it is because people don't know their flows well. Sometimes it is because they are weak on IFR knowledge. Other times it is because just naturally they cannot keep up with Part 121 flying.

Wondering if ETHOS is internet base or can courses be accomplished without?

You only need Wifi to sync your progress.

Study habits...or lack of them. You will live, eat, sleep, shower, *******, memory items, required callouts, Ops Specs, systems, and FARs.

Did I mention study habits?

LH

While in training does Republic have an agreement with a local gym to use?

I don’t think they do...other then the hotel gym.

No, hotel gym if you want to get your swole on. If you belong to the YMCA or any other place that allows you to work out at their national chains, you have that option. I went to the YMCA while I was in Indy and STL.

Do y’all have a modified training footprint for those already typed? Is IAH still looking like a mystery seniority wise(getting in)?

My current schedule for training (7/24 class) is:


7/24 - 8/3: Indoc (0800-1700)
8/4 - 8/19: Self study at home with ETHOS
8/20 - 8/24: Systems (1530-2300)

2-3 week break and then start sims.

IAH is still unknown at this time. We'll let you know if anyone in the 7/24 class gets it

Are you already typed?

Are new hires going through sims with upgrade candidates, so CA/FO, or doubled up new hire FO/FO?

Would not be fair to the upgrade candidate to match them up with a trainee. They have enough to worry about.


It is FO/FO during your training SIMs and LOFT. You will take turns, so your 4 hour SIM sessions consists with half in the left seat where you are training and half in the right seat where you basically do what the SIM instructor tells you to do. Your checkride will be with an experienced Captain in the left seat who may give you a hint here and there if you get stuck on something.

It’s FO/FO as all Capt candidates are already typed in the airplane. This allows them (Captain candidates) to take a shortened course for upgrade thereby saving the company money. This is why it is done this way...has nothing to do with “fairness” and everything to do with saving money!

Makes a lot more sense with that explanation.

Are there any issues with FO/FO training? I’ve heard of some FOs being busted for not performing CA duties properly at other places...

For the checkride they put someone qualified in the CA seat. It used to be flight safety instructors, but now I think they’re in-house company sim instructors. So basically it’s just you and a competent resource in the left seat to utilize. Honestly for my checkride I felt like I wasn’t doing enough because I had them running the QRH, setting up the MCDU, all that stuff. It’s how it’s supposed to be while you fly the plane.

With that said, FO/FO initial training isn’t too bad, as once you’re rolling down the runway, PF/PM duties are pretty much the same whether you are a CA or FO. Know your flows and call outs and you’ll be prepared and won’t let your sim partner down.

We were told to expect our own instructors using FSI equipment. This is awesome because the FSI guys, while capable instructors, would not know the Republic way of flying the airplane. Our guys expect us to fly the airplane the way they have taught us from day one, so this is a very good thing as it leads to less confusion and a checkride more consistent with our training.

Not fair to an FO that's upgrading to CA?? When I flew with a regional 10 years ago, my sim partner was upgrading to Captain. He had 7 years on the airplane as an FO, so it was a huge benefit to me and he said he learned from me as well. Matter of fact we are still great friends to this day.

It is defintely more to save money and also there are so many FOs being hired, it would be difficult to pair everyone up with an upgrading FO.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

For anyone interested in how the training timeline is looking, I just got my sim schedule today.

7/24-8/3: Indoc
8/4 - 8/19: Self study at home
8/20 - 8/24: Systems
8/27 - 8/28: Systems Integration training
9/22 - 9/25: Flat Panel trainer
10/14 - 10/25: Simulator / check / LOFT (Cincinnati)
11/? - IOE


They're starting to send people to Cincinnati cause of the sim backlog

Dang, make sure you stay in the flows and callouts and limitations during those 3 week breaks. Good luck and try to have a little fun.

You still get paid guarantee during those breaks, correct? And do you have flight benefits during the time off? Yes. I know studying needs to be done. I’m just asking a question.

Your MMG starts at 30 days. The first 30 days is a $60/day training stipend. You will be paid MMG >30 days through training and beyond if you don't drop below later.

Flight benefits are active "at 30 days," but many of us had Delta and United bennies activated almost immediately. AA didn't come until about day 35. My advice is fill out all Workday items on day 1 and you'll have bennies by week's end typically.

Thanks for the input. I didn’t so much mean MMG. I just meant “some form of income”. But that’s good to know. Thanks!

Just came here to ask this question since I have an interview next week. I really hope this process gets more streamlined. It's like they didnt know the pilot shortage was coming...

Our opinions on what’s streamlined are VERY different.

I just came over from Piedmont, where 8 months after DOH, I’d not seen an airplane yet. I even waited 4 months between interview and start.

The AQP may change the timeline above, as well. (The email I got today with my next few weeks schedule mentioned “about 50%” would see a change to the schedule.)

Sorry to hear about Piedmont. Please keep us posted on the AQP training.

Every regional (and LCC, major, etc) is well aware the shortage is coming. Being aware of a problem and being able to respond adequately and fast enough are two whole different things. Regionals are starting to struggle as the treadmill goes faster and faster.

Further, there are a lot of offers going out for people the regionals would not have otherwise made offers to. They had been making offers just to the super prepared, cream of the crop. No more. Consequently, extra work, extra sims, higher washout rates makes it even more difficult for the schoolhouses.

In time they will make adjustments, but as hiring by the majors increases the next few years and that rate is sustained, trying to hire qualified pilots will be harder and harder.

It will get to a point, my crystal ball says, where regionals will consolidate, a good portion of the 50 seaters will get parked in favor of fewer 76 seaters running some routes, and some previous ‘regional’ flying will be brought in to the majors (likely flying the A220s, etc.) Pay for regionals will continue to ratchet up to a point where it reaches two thirds to three fourths of the majors’ pay-scale for the A320/B737.

I have said this is what my crystal ball says the last couple of years. Earlier there were a lot of neysayers; as time has gone on more and more are coming around to my way of thinking. We are seeing evidence of several of these things happening. Stay tuned, it has only just begun.

Yeah, I was being sarcastic, hence the ... I agree with what you are saying if I had to give my best guess of the possibilities.

I figured you were being sarcastic. Thanks for allowing me to springboard off your comment to give my perspective. It has been awhile, and with a lot of newbies across the board, thought it was worthwhile to paint the big picture.

Earlier I have been accused of being stupid, foolish, airline management, and even a green naive newbie. None are the case. The last one really made me laugh. If you knew how old I was. My first sim was a 727. The guy who looks over the horizon gets ridiculed, until everyone can see it and things come to pass. . .

Being ridiculed for saying anything that could happen with this volatile flight environment lacks logic. It's logic that a lot of people can't seem to come by.

No AQP in this Indoc. 48 new hires. Systems will be split, so one half has two weeks for Ethos, the other half has 3.

21 August Indoc has 58 or 59 coming in, and will be the same.

They said they have a hard limit of 30 in a systems class, so I’d expect a max class size of 60 for Indoc. AQP could raise that? Not sure.

So far VERY happy with my choice. It was kind of funny to hear the training dept apologize for the “delays”...

So they say a $60 stipend per day for the first 30 days of training, and then MMG. Does that include the time spent on at-home Ethos training?

Yes.

Note that they reinforce the idea that you're being paid by warning you that when you go home you need to approach every day as if you were going to the training center. Get up early, have breakfast, start at 8AM, end at 5PM....or if you're like everyone else in my class that has the "deer in the headlights look", work until you have to go to bed in order to get reasonably good sleep -- for me, 8 hours.

My advice: if you have a family, etc. prime the pump now and let them know that while you may be home, you'll be working and should not be disturbed. You will need every bit of the two weeks at home (and then some) to meet the required hours to complete the ethos training course. It's ridiculously easy to get behind. Don't let that happen.

Or go to the local library or Starbucks. Staying at home and not being distracted is hard.


I am pretty sure you don't get per diem when you are at home. It used to add $500+ to your paycheck when they had Systems in STL.

As I understand it per diem doesn't start until after 30 days of employment, roughly about the time ethos training ends assuming two weeks for indoc and then two weeks for ethos.