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Burt123 03-03-2019 09:28 AM

What to expect during Initial?
 
The answer to this may be buried in one of these threads, but I'll be returning for Indoc soon and would like to know what I should expect. I think I will be AQP, but not sure.

Would anybody mind laying out the exact schedule, along with any make or break events, such as test's, orals, whatever there are and what to expect during those. Also judging by the first 3 days of Indoc I'm assuming it's all powerpoint. Should I put emphasis on taking notes or is all the info that's lectured in the company manuals? Last what does the checkride consist of and how does that go?

Thanks in advance, much appreciated!

Jungle Jim 03-03-2019 10:36 AM

Long days in a windowless, fluorescent-lit room going through endless mountains of powerpoint slides. Expect caffeine intake to be up significantly. No orals during indoc, and I'm pretty sure they're doing away with them altogether in AQP, but I'm not sure. Recurrent is all written test now. They'll tell you the important points that will be on the test, notate those, stay awake for the rest. Checkride consists of flying a profile in the simulator with some failures, etc. Enjoy!

Burt123 03-04-2019 07:21 AM


Originally Posted by Jungle Jim (Post 2773893)
Long days in a windowless, fluorescent-lit room going through endless mountains of powerpoint slides. Expect caffeine intake to be up significantly. No orals during indoc, and I'm pretty sure they're doing away with them altogether in AQP, but I'm not sure. Recurrent is all written test now. They'll tell you the important points that will be on the test, notate those, stay awake for the rest. Checkride consists of flying a profile in the simulator with some failures, etc. Enjoy!

Thanks, I invested in a quality thermos.

Longhornmaniac8 03-04-2019 09:15 AM

I posted this in another thread about 10 days ago:


2 weeks of Indoc, 2 weeks of Ethos (iPad systems study program) at home, a week back in Indy for Systems review in the classroom followed by the Systems Validation test (I have that tomorrow).

Then, schedules start to vary wildly as they have limited Enhanced Flat Panel Trainers (EFPTs) and sims. Some people in my class stay in Indy and start their EFPTs on Monday. Some don't start until the 3rd week of March. And everywhere in between. I have about 3 weeks off, and then bounce back and forth between Indy and St. Louis for sims and EFPT sessions, with a couple of 5 day breaks at home in between. Checkride is mid April.

From the time I came back for Indoc, it will be almost 3 months for me. For some others, it will be just a shade more than 2. Just depends on the luck of the draw within your class.

This is for a new hire going through Initial under AQP.
You will be AQP, which means no oral (this is great news for us). There are two tests during Indoc, one after about 3 days of class and is considered the Indoc exam (50 questions, multiple choice). It is open book, open note, and is basically straight out of the FOM subjects you've reviewed up to that point. The second is at the end of the second week and covers the General Operational Subjects (GOS). Another 50-question, multiple choice, open book, open note test.

After you return for systems after the two weeks of home study on the iPad, on that Thursday (assuming you start Monday), you will take a 100-question Systems Validation exam on the iPad. It is closed book, and you will take it in class. If you know the Review Questions in Chapter 9 of the Supplemental Study Guide down cold, you will do very well on this test. That said, take the systems week seriously. It's a great opportunity to bring a lot of the concepts together, and I think that week is an extremely effective time for the different things you've been studying to start coalescing.

dera 03-04-2019 10:01 AM


Originally Posted by Longhornmaniac8 (Post 2774512)
You will be AQP, which means no oral (this is great news for us). There are two tests during Indoc, one after about 3 days of class and is considered the Indoc exam (50 questions, multiple choice). It is open book, open note, and is basically straight out of the FOM subjects you've reviewed up to that point. The second is at the end of the second week and covers the General Operational Subjects (GOS). Another 50-question, multiple choice, open book, open note test.

After you return for systems after the two weeks of home study on the iPad, on that Thursday (assuming you start Monday), you will take a 100-question Systems Validation exam on the iPad. It is closed book, and you will take it in class. If you know the Review Questions in Chapter 9 of the Supplemental Study Guide down cold, you will do very well on this test. That said, take the systems week seriously. It's a great opportunity to bring a lot of the concepts together, and I think that week is an extremely effective time for the different things you've been studying to start coalescing.

The SV exam "is" the "oral". Most AQP implementations have you do it with an examiner, who can only use an approved question bank for the questions. Good to see FAA has approved a full iPad method for it.

Longhornmaniac8 03-04-2019 10:24 AM


Originally Posted by dera (Post 2774553)
The SV exam "is" the "oral". Most AQP implementations have you do it with an examiner, who can only use an approved question bank for the questions. Good to see FAA has approved a full iPad method for it.

It's probably semantics, because either way you're going to be tested over the material, but an SV is still a train-to-proficiency item as I understand it. If you don't pass the SV (<80%), they retrain you on the subjects you missed and give you the test again.

With a true oral, I'm not sure the process works the same way, but then again, I didn't go through that program, so I can't say for sure.

Burt123 03-04-2019 11:15 AM


Originally Posted by Longhornmaniac8 (Post 2774512)
I posted this in another thread about 10 days ago:



You will be AQP, which means no oral (this is great news for us). There are two tests during Indoc, one after about 3 days of class and is considered the Indoc exam (50 questions, multiple choice). It is open book, open note, and is basically straight out of the FOM subjects you've reviewed up to that point. The second is at the end of the second week and covers the General Operational Subjects (GOS). Another 50-question, multiple choice, open book, open note test.

After you return for systems after the two weeks of home study on the iPad, on that Thursday (assuming you start Monday), you will take a 100-question Systems Validation exam on the iPad. It is closed book, and you will take it in class. If you know the Review Questions in Chapter 9 of the Supplemental Study Guide down cold, you will do very well on this test. That said, take the systems week seriously. It's a great opportunity to bring a lot of the concepts together, and I think that week is an extremely effective time for the different things you've been studying to start coalescing.

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it!

More importantly, is lunch still being catered?

MrFriendly7 03-04-2019 11:21 AM


Originally Posted by Burt123 (Post 2774617)
Thanks for the info, I appreciate it!

More importantly, is lunch still being catered?

Lol :D I doubt it!

Longhornmaniac8 03-04-2019 11:43 AM


Originally Posted by Burt123 (Post 2774617)
Thanks for the info, I appreciate it!

More importantly, is lunch still being catered?

Ha, no. There are bagels on Friday morning, though!

kettlechips 03-05-2019 08:44 PM


Originally Posted by Longhornmaniac8 (Post 2774512)
I posted this in another thread about 10 days ago:







You will be AQP, which means no oral (this is great news for us). There are two tests during Indoc, one after about 3 days of class and is considered the Indoc exam (50 questions, multiple choice). It is open book, open note, and is basically straight out of the FOM subjects you've reviewed up to that point. The second is at the end of the second week and covers the General Operational Subjects (GOS). Another 50-question, multiple choice, open book, open note test.



After you return for systems after the two weeks of home study on the iPad, on that Thursday (assuming you start Monday), you will take a 100-question Systems Validation exam on the iPad. It is closed book, and you will take it in class. If you know the Review Questions in Chapter 9 of the Supplemental Study Guide down cold, you will do very well on this test. That said, take the systems week seriously. It's a great opportunity to bring a lot of the concepts together, and I think that week is an extremely effective time for the different things you've been studying to start coalescing.

Is going home for the two weeks of systems stuff positive space?

Web265 03-06-2019 04:10 AM


Originally Posted by kettlechips (Post 2775733)
Is going home for the two weeks of systems stuff positive space?

Yes but, if I remember correctly, it wasn't automatic. You might have to request the travel via a COBUS travel form. They'll explain how to do that at indoc.

felixk 03-06-2019 11:48 AM

How many days is indoc?

IDrive175 03-06-2019 11:52 AM


Originally Posted by felixk (Post 2776194)
How many days is indoc?

I have a total of 6... 3 before training delay and 3 after.

felixk 03-06-2019 11:53 AM

And right after that you go home for systems self study?

IDrive175 03-06-2019 11:59 AM


Originally Posted by felixk (Post 2776201)
And right after that you go home for systems self study?

No, first there’s 5 days of procedures.

felixk 03-06-2019 12:02 PM

So assuming there was no training delay this would be the breakdown?

1. 2 weeks indoc and procedures
2. 2 weeks self study
3. 1 week systems review
4. 2 weeks sim
5. 2 weeks OE

IDrive175 03-06-2019 12:46 PM


Originally Posted by felixk (Post 2776205)
So assuming there was no training delay this would be the breakdown?

1. 2 weeks indoc and procedures
2. 2 weeks self study
3. 1 week systems review
4. 2 weeks sim
5. 2 weeks OE

Make it 3 weeks sim (1 week in Indy, 2 weeks probably in St. Louis), and throw in a week at home before IOE, and you’ll have it, at least according to what my training materials say. In reality, there may be some more wait time before sims.

felixk 03-06-2019 12:46 PM

got it, thanks a lot!

Burt123 03-06-2019 03:26 PM

How does per diem work during training? Do we get this 24 hours a day while were in IND? Is this something payroll automatically takes care of or do we need to report it?

Thanks

IDrive175 03-06-2019 04:49 PM


Originally Posted by Burt123 (Post 2776367)
How does per diem work during training? Do we get this 24 hours a day while were in IND? Is this something payroll automatically takes care of or do we need to report it?

Thanks

Pretty sure it's automatic, but I would double-check. Maybe someone who's completed training can chime in.

UnbeatenPath 03-06-2019 05:19 PM


Originally Posted by Burt123 (Post 2776367)
How does per diem work during training? Do we get this 24 hours a day while were in IND? Is this something payroll automatically takes care of or do we need to report it?

Thanks

24 hours and it's automatic

Longhornmaniac8 03-07-2019 07:07 AM


Originally Posted by kettlechips (Post 2775733)
Is going home for the two weeks of systems stuff positive space?

Yes, when they book your travel to return from the delay, they will book:

1. Your travel TO Indy for Indoc/GOS;
2. Your travel home FROM Indy for Systems home study, and;
3. Your travel TO Indy for Systems class.

Beyond that, because at that point everyone will have different EFPT/Sim schedules, you use the Company Business (COBUS) forms to book your travel home. These are still positive space. Any time you have a break of 4 days or longer, they will positive space you to and from home and wherever you need to be.

In my case, I have about 10 days in Indy for EFPTs (with two days free), then I'm home for 5 days, then to St. Louis for another 10 days or so, then home for another 5, then back to Indy for my final 2 EFPT sessions, then 3 days off (no positive space travel, though I could non-rev somewhere if I wished, I suppose), then to St. Louis for my sim LOFT and LOE. After that I understand we are required a minimum of 5 days off contractually before starting IOE.

stabapch 03-07-2019 07:18 AM


Originally Posted by Longhornmaniac8 (Post 2776765)
Yes, when they book your travel to return from the delay, they will book:

1. Your travel TO Indy for Indoc/GOS;
2. Your travel home FROM Indy for Systems home study, and;
3. Your travel TO Indy for Systems class.

Beyond that, because at that point everyone will have different EFPT/Sim schedules, you use the Company Business (COBUS) forms to book your travel home. These are still positive space. Any time you have a break of 4 days or longer, they will positive space you to and from home and wherever you need to be.

In my case, I have about 10 days in Indy for EFPTs (with two days free), then I'm home for 5 days, then to St. Louis for another 10 days or so, then home for another 5, then back to Indy for my final 2 EFPT sessions, then 3 days off (no positive space travel, though I could non-rev somewhere if I wished, I suppose), then to St. Louis for my sim LOFT and LOE. After that I understand we are required a minimum of 5 days off contractually before starting IOE.

You should be able to jumpseat during training as well, which would make it easier than non reving if you can’t get positive space.

Longhornmaniac8 03-07-2019 09:26 AM


Originally Posted by stabapch (Post 2776778)
You should be able to jumpseat during training as well, which would make it easier than non reving if you can’t get positive space.

I kinda lump nonrevving and jumpseating in together. It's me flying without paying for it. Heh.

felixk 03-07-2019 12:01 PM

Is it risky to non-rev home if you have 2 days off? Anyone do this?

Jungle Jim 03-07-2019 12:07 PM


Originally Posted by felixk (Post 2777024)
Is it risky to non-rev home if you have 2 days off? Anyone do this?

I did it. Yes, it's risky, but so was sleeping at the super 8. I wouldn't do it if wx or loads look bad, or you have a 2-leg anything.

felixk 03-07-2019 12:10 PM

got it..thanks

Mjm8710 03-07-2019 12:36 PM

I wouldn’t plan on commuting if you only have two days off. Not worth the risk. Also, the guys that went home on the weekends in my class didn’t fair as well in training. Use that time to your advantage to study. Its a fairly quick process. Use the time to your advantage..just my opinion though. Good luck!

felixk 03-07-2019 07:04 PM


Originally Posted by Mjm8710 (Post 2777057)
I wouldn’t plan on commuting if you only have two days off. Not worth the risk. Also, the guys that went home on the weekends in my class didn’t fair as well in training. Use that time to your advantage to study. Its a fairly quick process. Use the time to your advantage..just my opinion though. Good luck!

Understood. Thanks

On another topic Is the training now AQP?

Random Task 03-07-2019 07:28 PM


Originally Posted by felixk (Post 2777342)
Understood. Thanks

On another topic Is the training now AQP?

Yes, new hire is now AQP.

Burt123 03-08-2019 09:48 AM

Question about pay...

I was looking through the Crew Life app and noticed there is now an updated schedule and pay on there. It's showing per diem for "Bid Period Mar 2-31" about $500 but "Credit" is 38h:24m.

Do we still receive min guarantee of 75-hours/month pay through the completion of training? Like we did during the training delay.

FlyGood 03-08-2019 12:22 PM


Originally Posted by Burt123 (Post 2777763)
Question about pay...

I was looking through the Crew Life app and noticed there is now an updated schedule and pay on there. It's showing per diem for "Bid Period Mar 2-31" about $500 but "Credit" is 38h:24m.

Do we still receive min guarantee of 75-hours/month pay through the completion of training? Like we did during the training delay.

Yes. You can only get below 75 by being sick or dropping a bunch which you obviously can’t do in training.

wcursino 03-12-2019 07:28 AM


Originally Posted by Mjm8710 (Post 2777057)
I wouldn’t plan on commuting if you only have two days off. Not worth the risk. Also, the guys that went home on the weekends in my class didn’t fair as well in training. Use that time to your advantage to study. Its a fairly quick process. Use the time to your advantage..just my opinion though. Good luck!

Do they provide you hotel rooms on the weekends?

Meow1215 03-12-2019 07:32 AM


Originally Posted by wcursino (Post 2780617)
Do they provide you hotel rooms on the weekends?

It’s for the duration of training, unless you have a long sit between events - say systems and sims.

Burt123 03-20-2019 05:52 AM

Global Entry
 
Does Global Entry help us get through customs faster on the line or is it mainly for leisure travel?

TheWeatherman 03-20-2019 06:15 AM


Originally Posted by Burt123 (Post 2786162)
Does Global Entry help us get through customs faster on the line or is it mainly for leisure travel?

There is usually a separate employee line when working a flight.

Burt123 03-20-2019 06:30 AM


Originally Posted by TheWeatherman (Post 2786181)
There is usually a separate employee line when working a flight.

That’s what I figured, thanks!

Jungle Jim 03-20-2019 07:31 AM


Originally Posted by Burt123 (Post 2786162)
Does Global Entry help us get through customs faster on the line or is it mainly for leisure travel?

Yes. It's worth it, IMO. Yes there is a separate crew line, but GE really speeds things along. Processing takes seconds, not minutes. You can't use a crew line when not in uniform, so if you ever travel internationally for leisure, it will even more pay off in spades. Even a couple times saved standing in a half hour plus line is worth the price of admission to me.

Also, there's a program called NEXUS that's a GE type program that works for both US and Canada entry. It's only $50 for 5 years of enrollment. It gives you the exact same benefits of GE, but also expedited entry into Canada. This is the program I've signed up for, and works great for our flights into Canada. It goes require an interview at specific locations that have both US and Canadian customs officers staffed. I did my interview in BUF by Niagara Falls. Makes a great day trip on an overnight (see the falls, etc.), it's cheaper, and you get access to Canadian border crossings included with all the benefits of GE (expedited handling at US border crossings, precheck, etc.) I'd look into that...

Viking6 03-20-2019 11:36 AM


Originally Posted by Burt123 (Post 2786162)
Does Global Entry help us get through customs faster on the line or is it mainly for leisure travel?

I have it and only use it for non-rev leisure travel. Honestly you can go months without flying a international flight, and they have very fast crew customs lines.

Joachim 03-21-2019 07:13 PM


Originally Posted by Viking6 (Post 2786409)
I have it and only use it for non-rev leisure travel. Honestly you can go months without flying a international flight, and they have very fast crew customs lines.

...Unless a couple of heavies/supers landed just before you. It's only $100/year. I got it when I was based in Miami but then again we did quite a bit of international flying. If you are one of those people who get flagged often by immigration I'd definitely do it.


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