Republic 357 / RAH / NMB Epic Fail
 

I have just loved hearing Moffatt say, at every opportunity over the last month, that 357 would NEVER have requested a "Pro-Offer" (I "think he meant proffer) of arbitration unless they KNEW the outcome of the request.

Some of CM's quotes:

"The Senior Mediator was convinced months ago that we were at an impasse, but it wasn't until the Company stated they needed more time for their Compensation counter proposal that the "Regular Mediator" became aware that there had arrived at an impasse."

"Dan S. talks to the Mediators and NNB regularly."

"There has NEVER been a time that the NMB went against the Mediator's recommendation"

‘There is a lot going on behind the scene by IBT National that will ensure that we ‘prevail.’ Single quotes representing it’s not a direct quote, I don’t think CM uses the word “prevail.”

I vote to fire the entire Negotiating Committee, including Wilder and recall our "appointed" President (there was no election so one can hardly say he was "elected") and ExCo.

Maybe this time around there will be more than 7 pilots out of our ~2,000, that might be willing to step up for the 7 positions.

CM has been blowing smoke up our bottoms long enough and don't forget he said on a conference call that "He had to take care of his MEA Brothers." Is that why IBT is paying MEA's legal expenses in the Bloch contract arbitration and all other legal matters?

IMO, the ExCo’s false statements (especially from CM), caused immense false expectations, borders on a DFR suit.

That's right, our dues and our two assessments are going to pilots that will displace us.

And, it's my understanding that we had 20 pilots show up at the Shareholder's meeting and 20 show up at LGA, picketed until it started drizzling and went home. Is that true? 40 pilots out of 2,000 participated?

It IS time for action, but I believe that change HAS to begin with dismissing those that led us to believe they actually knew what they were doing on the ExCo and the NC.

Dan S. and Wilder are such good buddies that it makes one wonder what the extent of their relationship is.

EVERYTHING the ExCo has told us has been proven to be misdirection, overly optimistic or an outright lie.

Thank you for you thorough, measured response to the situation. Kudos on being concise.

What’s wrong with “appointed?” If I had ran then there would have been 8 candidates instead of 7, not a big difference in a pilot group of ~2,000. Did you run?

If I had gone to NYC there would have been .0205% of our pilots there instead of just .02%. It ain’t just ME, it’s the entire pilot group that has lost faith (rightfully so) in our “leadership” and has no desire to do anything but complain to others on line. Did you go to NYC?

Mofffatt the Prophet told us everything was under control and that we (357 & IBT National) were WAY ahead of the company in every aspect of the process. Now it’s a known fact that he knew nothing he was talking about.

When you think of this ExCo, always remember, “We wouldn’t have filed unless we were certain of the answer.” Then continue your thoughts of our leadership, Local and National, and how they are improving our QOL and pay.

FO’s could have had a “free” and greatly needed raise months ago, but the prophet said, He!! no, it’s all or nothing." Here we are with less than nothing.

How long will it be before we can make a pro-offer for arbitration again? What did this immature, reactive and premature "request" cost us in time?

How much creditability did we lose with Management, the Mediators, the NMB, our fellow employees and, most of all, our pilot group?

“IF” we had hired professionals, they would have told the ExCo and the prophet to keep their mouths shut – Do NOT build false expectations.

Yeah, we may have TA’ed our previously perfect Scope (if it was SO perfect, why did we need to negotiate a new Scope clause?), but we may end up giving some of that back to gain something more important or relevant.

That’s why professionals don’t release information until the whole deal is done and ready for ratification.

I maintain my position that this Negotiating Committee (including Billy Wilder) and ExCo has failed us miserably and needs to be replaced, I don’t see how anyone could do a worse job for us.

One HAS to assume they did their best. And their best fell well short of the goal.

And we DO deserve better, MUCH better from IBT and RAH.

Membership meeting on the 6th. If you're a member in good standing feel free to make the motion to dismiss them.

Either put your money where your big mouth is, or you're worse than those you criticize.

I'll look for you there.

Now, now, you're rather outspoken yourself, and remember the most important trait of being a good brand new captain is the ability to remain calm.

Are you done with 145 upgrade and are really going to be in DEN or are you just firing for effect?

Membership meeting on the 6th at 1800 in DEN for members in good standing at the Staybridge Inn -

Denver International Airport, 6951 Tower Road, Denver, Colorado 80249

Denver Hotels - Staybridge Suites Hotels & Resorts Denver International Airport Hotel in Denver | Best Price Guarantee or First Night Free

303-574-0888.

At 1900 members not in good standing can join the meeting. I'm betting it's a lower percentage than the .02% that showed up in NYC.

If you are a member that can't show until 1900, can you still make the motion? Seems unlikely.

Unfortunately, FAPA is having its annual picnic that day, so I doubt we’ll see any of our, as the prophet calls them, "Frontier Brothers and Sisters."

"I like where you're going with that. I'm gonna do some research but I think the labor laws establish that whatever agent you use to unionize, the members are still personally responsible for its liabilities, making us a partnership vs a corp or LLC.

But if we were able to enjoy the separation from liability corporations enjoy, that would be a solid plan.

I'm seriously considering sending Craig my letter of resignation. If even half of us did that, maybe he could lay a stack of a thousand resignations on the table and say, 'well, we can't strike, but half your workforce just quit.'"

And this is just brilliant. You guys think, in 70 years of commercial aviation, you're the first ones to come up with this idea?

It's like the pilots that say, "Why don't we just raise the ticket prices?"

3662-

At the risk of understatement, your comments would seem to indicate you are unhappy with the 357 leadership and/or IBT in general. Let me ask you this:

You need a 25% showing to trigger a recall election for the 357 leadership. Are you actively garnering support for such a move? If if a recall is successful are you ready to step in and take over the leadership positions that would be vacated?

Or if the problem is with IBT, you need a 50% +1 showing to trigger a NMB representation election. Here is the starting point for that:

http://www.alpa.org/LinkClick.aspx?f...%3D&tabid=3345

Again, are you taking practical steps to achieve this goal? If such a move were to be successful are you able, or willing, to step in and create the reforms you believe are in order?

I understand you are upset. I make no judgement with regard to the validity of your position. Nor do I know what practical steps you may be taking to rectify the problem as you perceive it. If you are, I applaud your courage and conviction.

But if the extent of your actions is limited to vitriolic complaints on a public and anonymous internet message board, you are doing nothing more than making an annoying noise and Buddha's assessment of your behavior would indeed be measured, thorough and concise.

He's just a blow hard who enjoys quoting people off a private board and posting it in a public one.

All talk but no substance to back it up.

Either put up or shut up 3662. Work to be part of the solution or you're no better than those you criticize for allowing the 7 to be "appointed."

Identification of 3662 REVEALED
 

I not able to reveal how I found this out but I just found out who 3662forlife is, Republic pilots will be happy to know....or probably p***ed to know that his name is.........















JEFF DAVIS.............:mad:

I don't buy it. I think he's a MW pilot now working for us as an FO, who'd rather be a part of the problem than part of the solution.

Benefit of the doubt. I'd like to hear his answer.

Once again...3662 is an F9 pilot. There is no doubt that he is, so please don't treat him as if he's one of ours.

RAH pilot, Frontier pilot, Jeff Davis (?), Donald Duck, whomever.

For no other reason than to satisfy my own idle curiosity I still would like to hear his answer.

I do not know a Jeff Davis at F9, so must be RAH.

My theory is you don't get an answer. Especially if this person had anything to do hanging up the rubber chickens in the window at the Wexley School for Girls in Seattle.

Some questions will never be answered.

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui...166191104-1&zw

No answer would be an answer, too.

http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/i...ff5d0006/l.jpg

I think it is unrealistic to pursue a change in Unions, as in voting out IBT and voting in another, more effective, representative organization. I think that needs to be accomplished, but this is not the time to do so.

The Constitution and Bylaws, Section 19, paragraph D, item (4) prohibits such activity. That section states, “No member shall engage in dual unionism or espouse dual unionism or disaffiliation, or be a party to any activity to secure the disestablishment of the Local Union as the collective bargaining agent for any employee.”

We also all, theoretically, swore, “I will at all times bear true and faithful allegiance to the International Brotherhood of Teamsters and this Local Union.” when we became members of the IBT.

Attempting any such action would subject a pilot to SECTION 20: CHARGES & TRIALS.

More importantly, we don’t have time for such an effort. We NEED a contract.

And in answer to your question, I AM actively working towards a recall “election”, hopefully this time it will be an election with multiple candidates for each position or a slate, instead of a 7 person appointment. We HAVE to become involved if we are going to make any progress.

Do you think the company overlooked the fact that there were only 7 candidates fir 7 positions? Do you think they adjusted their negotiating strategy based on that fact? A 99% strike vote is grand, byt that;s a push of a button versus actually doing something. You want to win? Quit sitting on the sidelines and acting like young, entitled, immature prima donnas.

Thia ain't easy, someone - out of 2,000 pilots - has to grow a pair and do something if you want something.

In order for this to be successful, we need more pilots to step up – we need more than 7 pilots, one of which is most concerned about his Midwest “Brothers” to run for office, either as a slate or individually. We all b!tch and moan, but there are very few that have the fortitude to step up and take the heat.

It is tragic that there are not more pilot interested in running for office.

These will have to be pilots with realistic expectations. They will have to be willing to eat a bit of crow after what 747 and 357 have done, but we could come up with a contract that meets our needs and doesn’t kill the company.

The Pat G “slate” did a MUCH better job in communication and while they were unable to “Change the Relationship”, they were on the right track.

Quite simply, the people we have placed in the positions to reach an agreement on the 4 open sections have failed. We aren’t “negotiating” any more than the company is, and yet our “leadership” and NC report it’s all the company’s fault.

There is plenty of blame to go around between RAH and 357 for the abysmal relationship we currently enjoy. We can only control our actions and reactions, we are currently negotiating against ourselves and either placating or lying to our membership.

At the risk of understatement, our Union leadership and Negotiating Committee have an unproductive relationship with Management, there is NO mutual respect, no trust and no sense of, “If we can’t make this work together, we all suffer or die.” Like it or not, we're all in this together.

That HAS to change. It WON’T change with the people we have in place.

Our current ExCo and NC is adhering to the IBT International School of “Thinking”, summed up nicely by then IBT International Representative, who stated on video, “We want the CEO’s to wake up every morning and wonder, ‘What is the IBT going to do to me today.’”

The NC Chair (Danny S) takes pride in having an antagonistic and caustic “relationship” with Bedford and his Management team. He would rather “be the man” and “beat the man” than conduct reasonable negotiations. He failed in 2003, he failed in the SLI and he is failing now. The only difference this time around is that he’s got his buddy Bill Wilder collecting our assessment.

Yes, I am willing and able to step in and change the course of this negotiation. That’s not what I would actually do first, but I am very confident, given the right EBoard and the ability to hire true professionals and replace the NC, I would reach a reasonable agreement MUCH sooner than Moffatt the prophet, his EBoard and the current NC.

The first thing the Union needs is to make a serious course correction in strategy, philosophy, relationships and communications. Any one that’s been paying attention would get their first clue of the priorities from Eischen’s statements about the cart being before the horse and his follow up statement that it’s getting worse, not better.

I would stop paying the Midwest pilot’s legal bills, negotiate with FAPA towards a joint council and work on building a cohesive, cooperative pilot group with a common goal.

FAPA isn’t going to trust us for a long time after the SLI debacle and the Reps we sent to that goat rope. I don’t blame them. I have no idea why Midwest pilots trust us, except we’re paying their legal bills, at the determent of our “native” RAH pilots and they are getting current to move on to a better job.

MEA and F9 have much more in common than F9/MEA and RAH pilots have. L4 pilots are basically F’d, I’m sure the LAST thing they want to do is work here.

It is my understanding that we sent an egomaniac (DS), a Drunk (MR), a “president” that played video games the whole time (PP), a fem-Nazi with zero personality (EG) and a rich dude (TH) to represent the trusteeship with our financial “expert” (Robert Mann) that couldn’t figure out if his charts were right side up or upside down. MR stood on the street and made extremely derogatory, racist comments about every Afro-American person that walked by.

Billy Wilder reportedly threw his hands in the air, twitched and made so many faces that everyone in the room wanted to play poker with him. The experienced Attorneys said, “He’s certainly no Roland (his Father) and Billy said, “I take after my Mother.” The choir said, “No sh!t.”

I would stop the “Fight Back campaign” NOW and tell IBT National, “here’s how it’s going to go.” We have that right don’t we? IBT is supposed to be a “bottom up” organization, we have the right to run our Local as we see fit, right? Or is that just IBT rhetoric?

I would take down the RAH Contract NOW! | Teamsters Local 357 website in trade for the company taking down the My RJET Workplace website. We’re not going to win this in the public eye. The winning moves, for both parties, is at the table and more importantly behind the scenes maybe even over dinner and drinks.

So yeah, I don’t post on our board for fear of retaliation from National, from 357 and from my fellow pilots.

I think we have a lot of uneducated sheep following the wolf to their grave. They need to wake up, become involved and make a difference. Sadly, I don’t think there’s a chance in he!!! that they will. They will continue to cry about their work rules, scheduling and pay, but they won’t do a thing about it.

We have losers representing us and we’re losing, why is anyone surprised?

When the next Slate comes up, consider them and evaluate their philosophy, proposed methodology and strengths. They will lead us to a better contract, working relationship and overall QOL. We’ll be making a run as soon as it seems appropriate.

And, please consider, no one could do worse than those that currently represent us as an EBoard or as a Negotiating Committee.

I promise I will NEVER tell you I know something is a done deal until it actually is a done deal.

We are currently getting EXACTLY what we deserve.

You say appointed like you were cheated out of something.

I was in LGA. The entire group is never expected to attend an event like this. Some were working, some can't make the commute in. Again, I ask, where were you? You choose to sit on the side line and criticize. Real easy being you from a distance or in the shadows.

Asked and answered. Thanks for taking the time.

It is good to see you are actively working within the system to make the changes you feel are necessary rather than merely complaining. If you think the current leadership needs to be recalled, the procedure is set forth in the bylaws. Be careful though. Unseating leadership is the easy part. You will need to have people in place to fill the positions.

As an outsider, I would presume to suggest that repetitions of past misdeeds or allegations of same will not garner you the support you need. Nor will statements that would be perceived as aligning you with the Frontier group or with RAH management.

It is an unfortunate fact that the relationship between the RAH and Frontier pilots is adversarial if not toxic. Same for the relationship between the RAH pilots and RAH management. And in that regard you are correct in saying that there is plenty of blame to go around. But since that genie is out of the bottle, you need to work within the environment that has been collectively created.

In an earlier post, one of the more vocal RAH pilots accused you of being a Frontier pilot posing as RAH. To be completely honest, some of your comments directly attack not the 357 leadership, but the RAH rank and file. I can see how some would reach that conclusion. In that environment, any effort to get the support of the RAH group will be stillborn. Again speaking as an outsider, if you plan to make the changes you wish to make, you will need to change your tactics.

Spewing venom in public will not accomplish your goal, it will only invite venom-spewing from those whom you anger and insult. Retaliation against those who anger and insult you will be equally unproductive, if not counterproductive.

Good luck in your quest. I sincerely hope you are able to establish leadership which is effective and in whom the membership has sufficient confidence to follow. Toning down the rhetoric would be a good first step.

FWIW

Not undermining what the union is trying to do by publicly posting that which asked to be kept quiet would be a second good step. I agree with you on some of your points. I'm fed up and don't have nearly the faith in CM that I did last week...but regardless of that, I can't support anyone who goes out fatherly their way to subvert our union, agree with the leadership or not, which you consistently do by posting internal union communications and private message board posts to this public board.

Arguing on the internet...

Anyway, I think the real point here is not what the unions want to do, it is what the unions will be *allowed* to do.

Unless a higher court rules, I predict that there will be no more airline strikes in the US. The NMB members are appointed by POTUS.

Airline strikes equal news and bad press for the sitting POTUS, as they reflect poorly on the economy and state of labor relations in the USA. POTUS directly controls NMB equals no airline strikes.

The problem is far more fundamental than airline labor agreements. Voting in another union, or voting the union out will not change the law that pulls airline employee's teeth in collective bargaining agreements. The unions have been busted by the US government.