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Go here.
Think.
Go elsewhere.

http://www.rahcontractnow.org/

Can we declare tomorrow, 19 April 2013, as "speak positive day"???

That website is terrible gloom and doom and I refuse to believe life is that bad. If it is, WHY would people still work at RAH??

REMEMBER, you can always quit and work elsewhere.

Pathetic for sure.

How long have you been there?

With that growth I'd go to RAH over any other regional that's hiring. Ridin the front of the wave is everything.

Having reviewed the new pay rates offered by RAH in their LFBO, what is it that the union are refusing in the contract? I take it that it isn't the pay rates offered, because frankly they're about the best that can be expected in the current climate. I know the RAH contract is woefully lacking in some areas, but what exactly is it in the company's offer that is causing the ongoing rift?

True but wouldn't you rather apply to Comair or Pinnacle? They have a better contract.

What is the $6k in deductions? Taxes were already taken out so that must be tax free per diem?


The hourly pay rates are better than any regional I've ever seen. It's the cancellation pay above min guarantee that people want.

So is that the sole sticking point on the contract? The cancellation pay above guarantee?

Speaking from personal experience...

1. Minimum day
2. Trip rig and duty rig
3. Vacancies
4. Ability to trade/drop trips
5. Massive improvements to scheduling for reserves and line holders
6. Pay
7. Length of agreement

Are the concerns people have. We've been at this for 2200 days. Cancellation pay is a popular point but it doesn't overshadow the fundamentals above. The company did not offer a minimum day, a duty rig or a meaningful trip rig (unless we start doing MORE 16 hour 4 days). The company wanted to create a new type of displacement (again without respect to seniority). The company wanted pilots to be contactable at all times, and force pilots to call on their day-off to self-notify of reserve trips because they don't want to do staggered reserve periods or shift from their current 3-3 or 4-4 profile. The LBFO had numerous mistakes in it. For instance in the RSV section, a RSV pilot who worked on their day off would be compensated IAW an non-existent paragraph (in any of the proposals or the current contract). Importantly, the language used throughout both proposals was too similar to current language and would have brought serious grievance issues. If this CBA had been offered in 2007 it might have received a 51% vote. As things stand now, there is absolutely no way we would pass this garbage.

Finally, the company wanted this to be another 10 year agreement.

So at the moment is there no ability to trip trade or drop trips?

I take it in terms of vacancies you mean the pilot group would like to see vacancy bids that allow movement between certificates?

From what I've seen the proposed trip rigs are actually better than those offered at several other regionals, including my own (currently 15 hours min for a 4 day trip).

I'm trying to get a greater understanding of where the conflicts lie.

Cancelation pay is a MUST and we won't bend on that. Rates are one thing but when things cancel and your month goes to hell in a hand basket you'll think about how cancelation pay goes a long way to improve life. Just today with all the wx in the Midwest I lost 6+ hours of pay. So now to get that back ill have to burn time off just to make that up. So yes it is a big deal. I'm tired of this company making Kirby and me losing it. It has created a culture of passing on the buck for write ups to. Certain people don't want to write things up because they don't want to lose money. Tell me how that's safe? People ask us why we can't pull of what AA pilots just did, well that's why. So this contract needs to get done and it needs to be done right. And until this company has a recruiting problem, nothing will change and they won't give us the contract that is industry standard or slightly above. There's no incentive for the company. So all people who don't work here or see how things work first hand should rethink their comments against this pilot group. And for those considering this company should really look elsewhere until its all sorted out. When I got here things weren't too bad, and people were convinced this would be finished quickly. Guess what. We were wrong. So take that for what it is. And if I could go somewhere else I would. I am trying...so to each their own.

I take it you didn't read or understand how RAH works. The growth means very little to anyone not hired into the RW side. Those hired into the Q400 or E145 face a brutal ride.

Refuse to believe what you want. That website is conservative if anything. PM me if you have further questions, I'll be glad to tell you what this place is like.

Youre right. FO pay that results in a take home pay of 700 - 1000 a month is pathetic.

Trip trades or drops are nearly impossible (at least on the RW certificate). If you try to trade a 4 day for a 4 day operating on the same day in the same base, the software must first put your trip into opentime and instantaneously put the new trip on your schedule. Scheduling sets the minimum reserve coverage artificially high to negate this ability. So if you tried this trade you would be denied "due to minimum reserve coverage". I stopped trading/swapping on FLICA about 1.5 years ago with over 400 denials and ~5 approvals.

For vacancies we want the ability to bid on our own certificate (not consistently applied right now, see Q-400 bidding), and during displacements, to any certificate in our base and/or any base we can hold by seniority. Also, there should be a system-wide bid probably once a year.

The trip rig is useless for most trips. So either your company has a lot of 15 hour four days or your trip rig is also useless. We no longer have a pairing analyzer but 80 TAFB is common, under this rig, you'd get about 16hrs credit. That would not encourage efficient trips, nor would it compensate pilots reasonably for their time away from base.

However, more directly, the conflicts lie in micro-management and animosity. We do not trust our managers to do the right thing (morally or operationally). I've talked to quite a few pilots that would vote "no" to anything, just to punish the company for this abuse. Personally, I intend to vote "no" and consider voting "yes" on day 3 of the strike, if the proposal includes all the main things I'm looking for. On the other hand, the company does not like the union, and does not believe that the pilots are as ****ed as the union portrays.

In the words of Bryan Bedford. "We'll negotiate when there is a release [cooling off period]. That's the way the system works." --jumpseating in May 2010.

This is a big problem we're currently seeing over at XJT. Our min credit for a four day is 15 hours. We're seeing more and more 12 hour four days coming up, particularly in relief lines. I have seen the occasional 8 hour four day in recent months. We also have no min trip pay for 3 day trips. Our min day off pay is 3.75 hours. I'd say our average TAFB is now hovering around 78hrs. The new duty time and rest rules coming in next year will only make productivity worse for us.

With the addition of Caesar's flying we've see massive dip in productivity. My friend recently had a 3hr scheduled 4 day. That's with no cancellations. Luckily he is on RSV so he got 16 hours towards guarantee but he won't break guarantee so...

This is exactly why I would vote NO to the LBFO. Any trip rig that doesn't value my TAFB is an automatic no because of the new rest rules. Either schedules will be more efficient or they better give me at least a 5 hour min day. With the way this company forces us to fly 82 hrs a month if we don't have high credit trips we will all be flying 18-19 days a month for min guarantee.

Another thing is that because of said rest rules I can at least envision the outstation bases drastically reducing due to the fact they won't be able to start you at 5am and duty you for 14 hours like they can today. This company will do what costs them least and I sure hope the outstation model costs them. The reason the trips are utter $#!+ here is because of the outstations.

Finally, there are many areas in that LBFO where the current contract is better. A 2003 contract better than a 2013 LBFO. Think about that. I for one will not sell out the reserve pilots. I also will not vote for anything that doesn't allow for an open scheduling system where you can see where you fall on reserve and the number of reserves in base. Reserves should also have the option to bid First out, last out, etc. We also should not have to give up our no hot reserve LOA. In the LBFO the company wants hot reserve pilots again.

Agreed. LBFO was regressive except for pay rates. There were a few other improvements but the leverage given to the company was astounding in both the LBFO and the Union proposal.

Union gave up that leverage to get those rates, particularly for the lifers. I'd rather keep our current rates for CA with a $4-5 an hr increase for FOs and get duty rigs, min day, transparent scheduling, cancellation pay, ability to trade trips on flica without company intervention, 150% pay for open time pickup on a day off, ability to slide a vacation week + or - 3 days, better healthcare, better retirement, a true seniority based vacancy/displacement system. Until I don't see that as a minimum it is a NO

sounds like you want to be American Eagle......if you got all that stuff they would go put those shiny 175s here and not with you guys.

Cant have your cake and eat it too.

my second year at Eagle, my take home was about $3000/month, if not more. I guess that is why you all are growing.....

There is history here that goes back over 11 years. It starts with the tactics that the company employed in order to get this current garbage voted in by the pilot group and ends with the daily onslaught of ways in which the company finds to screw crew members (with the help of two of the country's best anti-labor law firms) out of pay and quality of life....in every area imaginable. The examples, if printed, could fill encyclopedia-sizes volumes and are detailed on this and other boards.

The devil is in the details. The company makes money by passing it's costs on to pilots (several of whom can't even afford to go out on an overnight...some of whom have to pack food so they can eat on their trips...some of whom take home $425 every two weeks after their family's health insurance is paid) via the "gray areas" of the contract. The rjet pilot group has seen the company pull far too many tricks with contract language and they are insisting on rock-solid language on things like scheduling, bidding, reserves, even the definition of monthly guarantee.

This contract is ten years old. Clearly, rjet's pay and work rules are outdated and have allowed the company to make more then enough money to dabble in this branded failure. That mess is still being dealt with with proceeds from the fixed-fee side of rjet, while employees of the fixed fee side are constantly told of the "woes" of the company, despite working for a very profitable side of the business. The pilots at rjet understand that this contract is NOT a five or four year deal....we'll be dealing with it for 10 plus years....and we're not stupid enough to sign off on a piece of junk that provides us with some temporary relief on only a few problem areas, only to screw the people that are going to be here long after the people that voted for it have moved on.

The use of the words "in the current climate" concerns me greatly. Airlines are making good profits. American/US Airways is about to take a position similar to Delta and United in that they will have strong pricing flexibility and long-term financial strength. Rjet's EBITDA is far and away better than other regional airlines and they have picked up flying for @80 new aircraft in the last 12 months, new scope clauses are allowing for the increased outsourcing of the very type of "large regional jets" that rjet operates, and rjet's competitors are either disappearing or headed toward becoming shells of their former selves, and, with any luck, Frontier will soon be somebody else's problem.

So let me ask: What exactly is "the current climate?" Two "crises" that were manufactured by Delta and the result of circumstances that rjet does not face? Also, the simple fact that anyone is saying "the current climate" is strong evidence that the company's foot-dragging on contract negotiations into a period that some see as challenging has been at least somewhat successful.

My point regarding the above is simple: The current "tough times" at the regional airlines is crisis manufactured by airline management. For them to cry "poor" is highly disingenuous.

This industry is in good shape and rjet is poised to make a LOT of money...which is, of course, a GOOD thing; but we're not gonna let this company make record profits and keep the sort of bottom-feeder compensation and work rules that we have now, particularly considering the increased tenure at these "stepping stone" airlines has become a significant part of a pilot's life (a result in which rjet was highly complicit) and the need for such QOL and compensation improvements has become a pressing industry issue.

The pilots at rjet are as tired of the race to the bottom as the rest of the industry....the difference is that we are actually trying to do something to either stop it or at least begin to slow the race into the doldrums....when I hear disparaging comments from the likes of some of the jackasses on this board and in the industry (particularly outsiders) who think that we should just "settle," it gets me pretty upset.

I say this a lot....you can sheer a sheep many times, but you can only skin it once.

The damage that Bedford and his gaggle of immoral charlatans have done is nearly irreparable...and this "LBFO" (the talk of which is irrelevant) does not even come close to healing wounds in which the company, even now, still gleefully and daily rubs salt.

Good God, man...understand what's happening before you pretend to be a bad-ass.

Rjet won the RFP because AMR didn't have to finance the aircraft, not because rjet's contract sucks.

Stay tuned on that contract point, by the way.

Ya because amr can't finance planes.... You seen those 777-300s?

Eagle is being dismantled, you guys just did the best job low balling.

If you guys get a good contract, my bet is you will get to come enjoy what ch11 feels llke. But hey noneof of us are real airline pilots till we have been through ch11 and furloughed right?

We low balled? I love it that you blame the pilot group for losing your flying.

Do you mean the ones that were ordered in 2011 and financed outside of BK?

Have you noticed that all of the RFPs since BK have been won by airlines that don't require AMR to secure additional aircraft financing? I'd expect that trend to continue as AMR continues to modify it's business plan to pass those types of costs on to others, particularly in it's regional sector.

Do you have another point, or are you just trying to be a jackass? You come on here and blame us for lowballing and "taking your flying," yet make disparaging remarks about "ch11" if we do get to the point where we would no longer be the lowballers.

So, let me ask, what can a bunch of pilots who have nothing to do with your situation and are just trying to do the right thing to improve their lot in life with a better contract do to make your sorry ass happy?

Nahhhh...AMR just wanted the E-175 at the lowest cost. AMR is paying a fee to pay for the planes leasing + the flight fee so they don't have to use their credit. AMR can get financing, is just they don't want to. Is not RAH pilot fault, is management the one that work the numbers.

I understand why they keep offering you guys a crappy contract, so they can keep bidding below other airlines.

It's just sad new hires are going to RAH because they think the upgrade is at the next corner.

Keep fighting for a better contract guys.

I don't understand that either. The additional AMR flying won't be enough to significantly increase upgrade time for a new-hire. Someone hired now will upgrade due to attrition, not growth. Skywest, Expressjet, AWAC, & Compass will have the same movement when the majors start hiring. Why not go there, have a decent quality of life, and make more than 35k?

But it's a 175! I can feel like a "real" jet pilot.


Sarcasm

Even at eagle, we are losing pilots in the next months. At least 20 a month will go to AA once they start hiring again.

It's at least partially to mostly your fault.

1. You took the job at RAH knowing what the place was.
2. Your pilot group refuses to do what is necessary to get a new contract. You guys complain and complain about how tough it is and how Bedford and his goons won't negotiator, but why should they? You guys consistently operate on time, which keeps filling Bedford's wallet. Until you guys man up and collectively do what is needed to get a new contract you will always be towards the bottom of the compensation and quality in the industry. Stop whining about your crappy pay and making websites and actually do something. Do what the AA pilots did or what the ASA pilots did. Both groups got better deals within months of doing one simple thing: their job by the book.

If you guys don't do something then you'll continue to grow and undercut everyone else. The rest of us at the other carriers don't want to be the next Ameican Eagle partially because of you. We need regionals to have better contracts so that longer term the costs of outsourcing are too high and flying remains at or returns to mainline.

Yes management at RAH and AMR shares blame too, but own up to your share of the responsibility. More importantly man up and do something to better your situation instead of just crying about how bad things are at RAH on your stupid website (which doesn't appear to work since Bedford is still filling classes).

This guy gets it.

I don't want to be a bearer of bad news, but it seems you want to work under your current contract until you move on to your next airline. Your decision is a very bad business decision. Maybe when you mature some day, you will realize how much money this attitude cost you.

I was speaking in regards to the Union proposed pay rates. I'm all for being the highest paid pilots in the country. However that is not likely to happen going from our current contract into an industry leading contract. Bedford is too smart to allow that to happen. Our pilot group has people who still bail the company out everyday. I fly with captains that will release the brake early so we can start getting paid an extra 10 minutes. Meanwhile this mindset only helps the company! I would much rather follow the book to the T and take the delay like we are supposed to. There is zero reason why we should be helping the company. We also should not have people picking up open time or doing scheduling favors. There should be a zero favors zero open time pickup policy agreed upon by every RAH pilot.

When you say when I mature and how much this attitude cost me... So let me get this straight... You approve of a contract that throws every reserve pilot under the bus. Every junior pilot under the bus. And every FO under the bus for some decent gains at the top of the CA pay scale? Again, giving up negotiating capital for gains for the lifers is an absolute NO vote from me. I know I'm not the only FO that feels this way.

I would much rather see industry leading work rules at our current rates than industry leading captain rates with our current work rules/worse work rules from the LBFO.

Consider his perspective- Hockeypilot benefited from quick upgrades at CHQ, caught on at NWA & now he's living the dream! I've got mine, so screw everyone else.

If we're assigning blame here, how much does Skywest get? How much does the NMB get? How much does your Union leadership get for having the wool pulled over their eyes?

Plenty of blame goes around everywhere. I'm just tired of RAH pilots whining about their crappy contract and not doing a thing about it.

Further I'm tired of them saying it's not their fault at all. They share some of the responsibility.

You also have plenty of them saying that they are glad that they don't have a good contract because that is how you end up shrinking and in BK. And because of their contract they are growing!

Do you think before you type? You seem to have RAH on your mind all the time. Did you not get hired here? Turned down for an interview? Move on. Worry about your own airline problems.