Damn!! Emirates A380 Crosswind Landing...
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 527
C'mon Avbug, don't play coy and make your point. Obviously you appreciate the value and effectiveness of differential braking when the other (front-line) directional controls fail, reach the limit of their authority, or are not installed to begin with.
#32
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,023
I correctly stated that they are not flight controls. Apparently you do not understand this.
Apparently you elect to fly in conditions that exceed the crosswind capabilities of the flight controls of the aircraft, and use brakes as a crutch when you run out of aerodynamic control. One day that will hurt or kill you. Or hurt or kill the students you encourage by demonstrating this poor judgement.
I understand differential braking. I have flown numerous aircraft that have no other steering, from single engine piston and turbine aircraft through large, four engine airplanes.
I have never used brakes as a flight control, because they are not.
#33
The point had nothing to do with autobrakes being "flight controls" per say, it had to do with levels of automation we willingly accept in certain areas, while possibly irrationally rejecting in other areas.
#34
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,023
Autobrakes are not flight controls, either, and in fact, are a function of ground logic, tilt, etc.
Autobrakes are not automation that one is "willing to accept," but a useful, indeed critical function of landing performance prediction and a level of protection through the antiskid system which provide a uniform rate of acceleration (or "deceleration," if one prefers).
In the case of the fishtailing A380 or similar type aircraft, an autobrake function would not serve to worsen the situation, but to stabilize it, and would do so more effectively than a pilot trying to play catch-up with manual braking. A pilot attempting to use differential, alternate braking to right that situation would easily go phugoid and make it worse. Uniform braking on a large aircraft is in order. Autobrakes on a large airplane in the situation video, however will also apply a measure of differential in direct response to tire speed as well as overall acceleration, and the braking action at each tire will have a damping effect.
Autobrakes are not automation that one is "willing to accept," but a useful, indeed critical function of landing performance prediction and a level of protection through the antiskid system which provide a uniform rate of acceleration (or "deceleration," if one prefers).
In the case of the fishtailing A380 or similar type aircraft, an autobrake function would not serve to worsen the situation, but to stabilize it, and would do so more effectively than a pilot trying to play catch-up with manual braking. A pilot attempting to use differential, alternate braking to right that situation would easily go phugoid and make it worse. Uniform braking on a large aircraft is in order. Autobrakes on a large airplane in the situation video, however will also apply a measure of differential in direct response to tire speed as well as overall acceleration, and the braking action at each tire will have a damping effect.
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,193
I made my point. You incorrectly stated that brakes are flight controls.
I correctly stated that they are not flight controls. Apparently you do not understand this.
Apparently you elect to fly in conditions that exceed the crosswind capabilities of the flight controls of the aircraft, and use brakes as a crutch when you run out of aerodynamic control. One day that will hurt or kill you. Or hurt or kill the students you encourage by demonstrating this poor judgement.
I understand differential braking. I have flown numerous aircraft that have no other steering, from single engine piston and turbine aircraft through large, four engine airplanes.
I have never used brakes as a flight control, because they are not.
I correctly stated that they are not flight controls. Apparently you do not understand this.
Apparently you elect to fly in conditions that exceed the crosswind capabilities of the flight controls of the aircraft, and use brakes as a crutch when you run out of aerodynamic control. One day that will hurt or kill you. Or hurt or kill the students you encourage by demonstrating this poor judgement.
I understand differential braking. I have flown numerous aircraft that have no other steering, from single engine piston and turbine aircraft through large, four engine airplanes.
I have never used brakes as a flight control, because they are not.
#37
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,023
Do I?
30+ years in a very limited range of J-3's through DC-3's, Beech 18's, pawnees, air tractors, thrush's, ag trucks, super cubs, Cessna 180's and 185's, Dromaders, etc.
Perhaps you can straighten me out on the whole tailwheel thing. Go on.
It's only been a few weeks since my last conventional gear landing, so probably a lot has been forgotten. I'd really love to hear about your expert instruction on the subject.
I've never seen a conventional gear airplane with brakes for a flight control, either. Have you?
30+ years in a very limited range of J-3's through DC-3's, Beech 18's, pawnees, air tractors, thrush's, ag trucks, super cubs, Cessna 180's and 185's, Dromaders, etc.
Perhaps you can straighten me out on the whole tailwheel thing. Go on.
It's only been a few weeks since my last conventional gear landing, so probably a lot has been forgotten. I'd really love to hear about your expert instruction on the subject.
I've never seen a conventional gear airplane with brakes for a flight control, either. Have you?
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: retired
Posts: 992
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Always Fly With Favorite Captain
Posts: 376
Do I?
30+ years in a very limited range of J-3's through DC-3's, Beech 18's, pawnees, air tractors, thrush's, ag trucks, super cubs, Cessna 180's and 185's, Dromaders, etc.
Perhaps you can straighten me out on the whole tailwheel thing. Go on.
It's only been a few weeks since my last conventional gear landing, so probably a lot has been forgotten. I'd really love to hear about your expert instruction on the subject.
I've never seen a conventional gear airplane with brakes for a flight control, either. Have you?
30+ years in a very limited range of J-3's through DC-3's, Beech 18's, pawnees, air tractors, thrush's, ag trucks, super cubs, Cessna 180's and 185's, Dromaders, etc.
Perhaps you can straighten me out on the whole tailwheel thing. Go on.
It's only been a few weeks since my last conventional gear landing, so probably a lot has been forgotten. I'd really love to hear about your expert instruction on the subject.
I've never seen a conventional gear airplane with brakes for a flight control, either. Have you?
#40
Only in the world of the internet do wheel brakes become flight controls. Differential braking on the ground is a ground handling technique. Differential wheel braking in flight is kind of useless.
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