Frontier deice incident BNA
 

This, of course, could have killed a whole plane load of people. Someone needs to be locked up for awhile to think about the error of their ways.

https://onemileatatime.com/frontier-...ophic-deicing/

In my day a pilot would have gone back and visually inspected the wings.

Practically speaking, how could any of us catch this before departing? At least in the plane I fly, there is no way I can get a good enough view of the wings to confirm they’re clean. We’re not trained to leave the cockpit and look out one of the windows. What else can we do other than put our trust in these de-ice crews?

is a “pre takeoff contamination check” not required before departure? It is at my airline.

You have to go back and look at the wings every time you deice? It hasn't been that way at the 3 airlines I worked at

It is not required at any major airline if the deice crew has certified the aircraft free of all contaminants and the holdover time determined by the deice report has not been exceeded or voided by a precip change. It can be done at Delta for any reason if the flight crew feels it’s warranted.

The flight attendant caught it. After deicing a pilot visually inspecting the upper surface and leading edge of the wing was required. Walking back to row 20 and looking right and left.

May my regional, if within the HOT, you had to be able to see clearly the part of the wing they stared the de ice procedure on. Since they start with the left wing the CA could look over his/her shoulder and see the end of the left wing. If you could not clearly see the wing, you had to do a pre takeoff contamination check.

If you were unsure or the HOT had expired you did a “pre takeoff contamination check” where one of you went back, asked the people in the exit row to move, and visually inspect both wings from the exit row.

Read the comments after that article, they’re ridiculous. I wonder if we’ll see similar here. Anywhere I’ve worked a visual inspection by the flight crew is only required if holdover is exceeded or the precip type/intensity changes.

We did do a pre-take off check from the cockpit during icing conditions regardless because a portion of the wing was visible, but left the cockpit for pre-take off contamination check only for the above conditions.

I believe the flight crew discovered the contamination during the "pre-takeoff check". I can't find the memo now.

I'm not surprised. The public, while holding us in relatively high regard, will ALWAYS cast blame on a pilot when/if something happens. Not fair at all but it's the reality. How many times have you handled an incident with the precision you've been taught to, only to have some passenger make a comment about how they are going to miss their connection because of you? That another pilot would have done a better job?

This Frontier crew, including the FA's, did everything right. Hats off to these professionals.

Exactly. When the deice crew says "free of all contaminants" we take them for their word and proceed accordingly. Just like when the ramp crew gives me a salute for taxi, that means "all clear." I then assume no one is lingering around the nose wheel, and commence taxi.

I really want to know what happens to the deice crew and company. I’m not one to cast blame for a mistake, but this is so bad it’s criminally negligent.

I believe frontier ended the contract with company immediately after the incident. Not sure about the crew.

The company being used was a well known bottom feeder with a history of issues. Looks like most of their service contracts are Allegiant and Frontier.

And Spirit. We use(d) them in PIT.

What if they ran out of fluid while deicing the right wing? Having the crew check is not a solution. What if they ran out while de-icing the tail area? If we can not trust the de-icing crew we have a big problem. Kudos to the FA/Pax that caught this.

Scoop

Oh I agree, I was just commenting on my experience at another airline since another poster had never had that experience. HOT starts when they start de icing so if they start with the left wing and run out of fluid de icing the tail they either start over or we keep the original time they started on the left wing.

what this de ice crew did is beyond gross negligence and i applaud the crew of this frontier flight.

If it's precipitating, sure. If it's clear out I think most of us take their word for it, the whole process is pretty orchestrated and procedural. Apparently that's not an absolute guarantee, although this sounds like intentional fraud vice any kind of honest mistake.

Yeah kudos to that FA, not all of them would have thrown the flag, or even noticed.

I’m more interested in how this story got leaked. Obviously the crew would file a report with the higher-ups, but how much others get their hands on this photo? I wonder if one of the FA’s sent it to the media.

One possibility is...plane returned to the gate, if anyone made a PA as to why, a pax could have snapped a photo of the wing and posted about it online

The plane came in the day prior in nasty icing and snow conditions and the return flight was canceled. They got deiced the following day when there was no precipitation and were advised by the deicing provider that the aircraft was clean. Our (F9) procedures require the crew to do an "exit row" contamination check if the HOT is exceeded or if operating in heavy snow. While neither of these conditions existed at the time, it seems something made them want to check (and what a good call to do so!).

They went back to the gate to deice again and were told by the vendor that fluid had run out (not sure if it was type I or IV). It's hard to say whether the fluid ran out immediately after they got deiced/anti-iced, or during.

Fantastic catch by everyone involved on the airplane.

I wonder if it was pax in window seat(s) who notified the flight attendants.

Standby for “because Frontiers bottom feeding lowest cost de-ice vendor **** themselves, you all are going to have to wear diapers”.

Yup. Regional pilots have gotten in trouble in recent years, launching with "trivial" ice/frost (even loose, blowing snow flakes) and no de-ice, only to have a PPL or "aviation savvy" civilian send pics to the FAA. I arrived at a plane early one morning and the station manager pulled me aside and said one of the pax was concerned about a little frost on the wings... "OK, so de-ice us". Turns out they were one of those rare warm-weather coastal stations which wasn't required to have a de-ice capability. Hung around drinking Joe until the sun came, then taxied out to the end to thaw the ice in the sunlight, taxied back, got the pax and off we went.

Looks to me like they ran out of type 1, and maybe sprayed cold T-4 on the ice :rolleyes:

For sure. If that was a full boat with a lot of gas, good chance it would be leading all of the news services right now.

And where do you draw the line? Are we going to start checking bolts are properly torqued down after maintenance?

Agreed! Good catch by the FA. This could have ended in disaster.

From what I heard, they ran out of Type I and the de-icer just thought he could apply Type IV on top of the snow and call it clean.

I heard that once this was reported, the particular de-icer was immediately fired and the company's contract was terminated.

Every deice every time?

What day was that?

Yes every deice, before I left the pad one of us would go back and exit/row inspect the wings. If icing conditions were present on taxi out another wing inspection was done before takeoff. Even within the holdover time.

The picture is worse than my mind imagined.

Yeah, eye opening to say the least. If that plane was heavy...

I might start doing a cabin check if I know the plane started with a big contamination load. Something to think about.

ummmm yeah, Don’t know what to tell you. I’ve always assumed this procedure was in place because the people making minimum wage probably shouldn’t be the ones to tell those of us flying airplanes for a few decades.

not sure if the disconnect is the type of airplane or not. Having previous airbus experience it’s always been my understanding that was the purpose of the “black triangles” located on the overhead bins inside the cabin. They indicated optimum points to view contaminants on the wing.

now that I’m on the 747 we can’t really see the wingtips from the cockpit very well. Preferred procedure is to look out the L1 Door. And yes, the flight crew does a visual inspection after completion of deice.. And once again if the HOT is expired.

Judging from the picture, it appears that's what happened.

I'm not certain about the first part (though I really hope its true), but the second part is correct.