AirBear

This alert is based on the Truckee Challenger crash but also mentions other jet accidents that happened during circling approaches.

12 years at NetJets, and other than the ILS 6 circle to 1 at TEB I can count on my fingers how many circling approaches I did. That's the big problem, we just don't do enough of them. It's easy to go a year or more without doing a real one. The Sim we used at FSI only did circling at MEM and JFK.

IMO the Truckee accident was another "Billy Bob's Jet Charter" type scenario:
-4 pax onboard but only 3 on the manifest
-Captain was not a US Citizen and had an incorrect visa
-Captain and Copilot did not appear to have received basic indoc training nor an operating manual
-no record of a W&B calculation
-Operator had their Part 135 Certificate for 13 days and this was the first time the crew flew together

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...ource=hs_email

jetlaggy

Seems like alot of type ratings don’t include circling anymoe

captjns

Not unless required, if flying Part 91, or if planning to work for foreign carriers who by their AOCs are permitted to conduct unrestricted Circling Maneuvers.

JohnBurke

To improve safety when doing circling approaches, we should make sure we have the correct visa, and ensure we're. a citizen, and never fly the approach unless we've held a 135 certificate for more than a month. Excellent. Also, make sure that a record of a weight and balance calculation is left under a prominent rock at the point of departure, and own a manual. These will prevent a mishap while circling, especially if extra passengers are carried. All completely relevant to safely circling. Who'd have guessed?

rickair7777

Yeah corporate culture has nothing whatsoever to do with safety.

Hotel Kilo

And dot gov (FAA AIS) doesn't either?

Why in the 21st century are we still farting around with circling approaches? Easy to have AIS develop RNAV (RNP) approaches to these runways.

OscarRomeo

Most bizjets either aren’t equipped or do not have the authorization to fly the RNP AR approaches, so circling is still common outside of 121.

ZippyNH

Plus many airports like TEB are so airspace constricted by larger commercial airports nearby....you can only come on from one direction regularly without causing major delays...
Airline guys don't get it, it's a different environment....many have issues transitioning to fly fractional or 135....many more more gray areas where judgement as opposed to the yes or now flowchart method of 121 decision making works.

rickair7777

I was being sarcastic

rickair7777

I think most of us do get that. The problem today likely comes down to pilot shortage and experience... the days of having 50 year olds with 20,000 hours lined up around the block to apply for a $50k job flying a 550 are long gone. So the lower rungs are getting populated by some serious sketch.

I remember a day when airliners crashed on a fairly regular basis, largely but not entirely commuters. 91 and even 135 seems to be doing a lot of that lately.