P-40 Lost in Accident
07-08-2023, 02:02 PM
#32
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,709
Originally Posted by METO Guido
The nips got him. Question, what kind of fuel blend do these engines typically use?
They burn 100LL.
07-08-2023, 02:12 PM
#33
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,709
Originally Posted by PipeMan
I read it on one of the forums I frequent. It came from someone who flies in the are and had to be on the frequency or know someone who was. When I go back to look at those comments, they were gone. As far as "crazy" rumors go, anything someone claims to have happened are making baseless claims. A mechanical failure or a suicide are both equally likely until we know more about the accident, as far as I am concerned. Based on pilots in the area, the suicide seems way more likely than anyone on here is willing to admit.
Having said all that, you guys should do your OWN research. It's all speculation at this point.
Having said all that, you guys should do your OWN research. It's all speculation at this point.
07-08-2023, 04:06 PM
#34
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,026
Most of these operators tend to baby the engines. The original 115 and 130 fuels aren't available now. Racers use additional TEL (tetraethyl lead) in their fuel to help control detonation and lube valves. The P40 in particular, without an intercooler, had an issue with detonation at high manifold pressure settings (up through the E model, with the single-stage blower). Consequently, use of lower power settings is common.
Water injection or anti-detonation fluid injection (ADI) is also an option, but again, most operators respect the engines by backing off on the power. The P40 uses three coolers because it doesn't take much of a coolant loss to lead to an overheat on the engine.
The other side of the coin with 100LL is that one hundred low lead is actually fairly high in lead, and lends to fouled spark plugs, rough engines, and preignition, detonations ugly step sister.
There's not a lot of option when it comes to available fuels; the engines are run on 100LL.
Allison agreed to an increase in emergency use of 60 inches manifold pressure (full military was 48 for the E), based on reports that pilot shad been pushing well above that, but also indicated that the aircraft should be pared back and limited to a value less than 60 at max manifold pressure settings in the earlier P40's. Allison powerplants were in production then, and better suited fuels available, too. Allison's comment in their memo on the subject, dated 1942, should be noted:
"While we cannot help but feel pleased that our engines are standing up apparently to the particular squadron's satisfaction under these conditions, we also cannot help but feel that the selection of such high manifold pressures may be based on inadequate testing and that they are apt to result in occasional failures which may occur some time after the operation at such high horsepowers but when operating normally or even cruising with resultant loss of pilot and aircraft."
Also notable, in the same memo, though not really a revelation:
"Our tests indicate that under detonating conditions a hole can be burned in a piston which may result in seizing in the cylinder and breaking of a connecting rod in a matter of thirty seconds from the time the detonation starts."
https://web.archive.org/web/20160228...39%20abuse.pdf
Water injection or anti-detonation fluid injection (ADI) is also an option, but again, most operators respect the engines by backing off on the power. The P40 uses three coolers because it doesn't take much of a coolant loss to lead to an overheat on the engine.
The other side of the coin with 100LL is that one hundred low lead is actually fairly high in lead, and lends to fouled spark plugs, rough engines, and preignition, detonations ugly step sister.
There's not a lot of option when it comes to available fuels; the engines are run on 100LL.
Allison agreed to an increase in emergency use of 60 inches manifold pressure (full military was 48 for the E), based on reports that pilot shad been pushing well above that, but also indicated that the aircraft should be pared back and limited to a value less than 60 at max manifold pressure settings in the earlier P40's. Allison powerplants were in production then, and better suited fuels available, too. Allison's comment in their memo on the subject, dated 1942, should be noted:
"While we cannot help but feel pleased that our engines are standing up apparently to the particular squadron's satisfaction under these conditions, we also cannot help but feel that the selection of such high manifold pressures may be based on inadequate testing and that they are apt to result in occasional failures which may occur some time after the operation at such high horsepowers but when operating normally or even cruising with resultant loss of pilot and aircraft."
Also notable, in the same memo, though not really a revelation:
"Our tests indicate that under detonating conditions a hole can be burned in a piston which may result in seizing in the cylinder and breaking of a connecting rod in a matter of thirty seconds from the time the detonation starts."
https://web.archive.org/web/20160228...39%20abuse.pdf
Last edited by JohnBurke; 07-08-2023 at 04:25 PM.
07-08-2023, 08:03 PM
#35
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Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,482
Originally Posted by Airhoss
Fuel blend? I’ve never heard the term “fuel blend” when referencing av gas.
They burn 100LL.
They burn 100LL.
07-09-2023, 04:00 AM
#36
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Joined APC: Dec 2022
Posts: 263
Originally Posted by METO Guido
The dep airport is 3600’ msl, longest RW 5200. High that day 77. Doubted it had water injection but what do I know? Just another fan. Superchargers, mags, oil line rupture, fuel mismanagement, gust lock, bird strike, loss of directional control, anything but a suicidal flip off. No chance. Not like that.
07-09-2023, 05:17 AM
#37
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Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,482
Originally Posted by PipeMan
How then do you explain the mysterious singing on the frequency? I’m dead serious. I don’t know much about these old war planes nor have any interest in them. So I don’t know about specifics
07-11-2023, 07:47 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,482
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
Most of these operators tend to baby the engines. The original 115 and 130 fuels aren't available now. Racers use additional TEL (tetraethyl lead) in their fuel to help control detonation and lube valves. The P40 in particular, without an intercooler, had an issue with detonation at high manifold pressure settings (up through the E model, with the single-stage blower). Consequently, use of lower power settings is common.
Water injection or anti-detonation fluid injection (ADI) is also an option, but again, most operators respect the engines by backing off on the power. The P40 uses three coolers because it doesn't take much of a coolant loss to lead to an overheat on the engine.
The other side of the coin with 100LL is that one hundred low lead is actually fairly high in lead, and lends to fouled spark plugs, rough engines, and preignition, detonations ugly step sister.
There's not a lot of option when it comes to available fuels; the engines are run on 100LL.
Allison agreed to an increase in emergency use of 60 inches manifold pressure (full military was 48 for the E), based on reports that pilot shad been pushing well above that, but also indicated that the aircraft should be pared back and limited to a value less than 60 at max manifold pressure settings in the earlier P40's. Allison powerplants were in production then, and better suited fuels available, too. Allison's comment in their memo on the subject, dated 1942, should be noted:
"While we cannot help but feel pleased that our engines are standing up apparently to the particular squadron's satisfaction under these conditions, we also cannot help but feel that the selection of such high manifold pressures may be based on inadequate testing and that they are apt to result in occasional failures which may occur some time after the operation at such high horsepowers but when operating normally or even cruising with resultant loss of pilot and aircraft."
Also notable, in the same memo, though not really a revelation:
"Our tests indicate that under detonating conditions a hole can be burned in a piston which may result in seizing in the cylinder and breaking of a connecting rod in a matter of thirty seconds from the time the detonation starts."
https://web.archive.org/web/20160228...39%20abuse.pdf
Water injection or anti-detonation fluid injection (ADI) is also an option, but again, most operators respect the engines by backing off on the power. The P40 uses three coolers because it doesn't take much of a coolant loss to lead to an overheat on the engine.
The other side of the coin with 100LL is that one hundred low lead is actually fairly high in lead, and lends to fouled spark plugs, rough engines, and preignition, detonations ugly step sister.
There's not a lot of option when it comes to available fuels; the engines are run on 100LL.
Allison agreed to an increase in emergency use of 60 inches manifold pressure (full military was 48 for the E), based on reports that pilot shad been pushing well above that, but also indicated that the aircraft should be pared back and limited to a value less than 60 at max manifold pressure settings in the earlier P40's. Allison powerplants were in production then, and better suited fuels available, too. Allison's comment in their memo on the subject, dated 1942, should be noted:
"While we cannot help but feel pleased that our engines are standing up apparently to the particular squadron's satisfaction under these conditions, we also cannot help but feel that the selection of such high manifold pressures may be based on inadequate testing and that they are apt to result in occasional failures which may occur some time after the operation at such high horsepowers but when operating normally or even cruising with resultant loss of pilot and aircraft."
Also notable, in the same memo, though not really a revelation:
"Our tests indicate that under detonating conditions a hole can be burned in a piston which may result in seizing in the cylinder and breaking of a connecting rod in a matter of thirty seconds from the time the detonation starts."
https://web.archive.org/web/20160228...39%20abuse.pdf
Seeing one of these icons perform is like hauling sails up over the Constitution again. Highly recommend. But even though you’re more than current ATL/FLL on the bus, just because it’s vintage, doesn’t mean easy to fly or maintain. Often the opposite. Gotta have reps. As those experienced operating engines of that era understand all too well, they can let go at any time, with zero advance warning. So occasional loss of plane & pilot is a risk some gray tigers are still willing to take. CLEAR!!
https://youtu.be/CB7H-napM7I
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