Airline Pilot Central Forums - Alaska SNA [MLG Failure]

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- - Alaska SNA [MLG Failure] (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/safety/144257-alaska-sna-mlg-failure.html)

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Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 3686322)

Hard landings are way up industry wide. Most of them never make the news. United alone has lost 3 airframes recently to hard landings. It’s a discussion item at high levels in airline management. I made no specific comment on this accident. I stated major airlines. I am not on the 737 but I have a lot of time flying the aircraft. The hard landing issues are not fleet specific. The one issue in many seems to be limited experience and a perhaps checkered training background. Before you jump on that statement I have zero knowledge of the background of the pilots in this accident. It’s a bit of a sensitive subject for me because the closest I came to damaging an aircraft was a copilot that turned out to have required extensive extra training in both their aircraft checkouts. Prior to the last three years I would not have had to deal with the issue as the pilot in question would have been washed out. We need as a collective industry to stop lowering performance minimums.

Again, let's see what the facts are. You posted the comment on this thread within hours of the occurrence. It is obvious what your intent is. Perhaps you recall how an NG handles in strong, gusty winds when you have to use flaps 40? Not as well as a Max does. Add to that a short, wet runway at night. I'm well aware of the rest of what you are stating. How do we even know if there isn't a maintenance angle to this event yet?

Quote:

Not as well as a Max does.

Yeah we all know how good the MAX is.
Do they even call it that or did they have to change the name?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiredSoul (Post 3686357)

Yeah we all know how good the MAX is.
Do they even call it that or did they have to change the name?

So you've flown it? Just noting that one handles better at flaps 40 than the other under certain conditions. That's all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CousinEddie (Post 3686354)

My intent was simple. There have been a lot of approach/landing incidents recently. The 737-800 was one of the nicest landing aircraft I flew. Made the 727 seem like a demonic machine in comparison. Don’t know a thing about the Max other than don’t hand the aircraft over to a 200 hour copilot in the middle of a flight control malfunction down low.

He can post whatever opinion he wants… with that being said, I’ll agree that it appears more landing issues occurring over the past few years during the hiring ramp up of many carriers.

To me the landing just looked like they did a minimal flare/no flare from the video. Hard to tell with it being night. In the event they had a high wind additive, flaps 40, with no flare that's what a 1,000-1,500 fpm descent at touchdown/impact? The 73 is one tough machine and Idk what that descent rate translates to in G force but it doesn't seem like enough to send the MLG through the entire wing like that. Possible windshear with the weather present that day. Curious to see the data and what is found. I'm just glad everyone is okay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 3686362)

The 737-800 was one of the nicest landing aircraft I flew. Made the 727 seem like a demonic machine in comparison. Don’t know a thing about the Max other than don’t hand the aircraft over to a 200 hour copilot in the middle of a flight control malfunction down low.

While that shines absolutely zero light on the accident in question, it does provide us all with yet one more irrelevant interweb post. What’s next, commentary on the handling characteristics of the 707?? Let the NTSB take it from here….

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Originally Posted by Nucflash (Post 3686429)

Curious. At WN our FO’s do the landings at SNA normally because the captains do our outdated noise abatement takeoffs there.

Does Alaska have any of this?

Regarding a flare, the 737-800 at flaps 40 requires very little flare.

It will be interesting to see the data when it comes out.

Let the NTSB take it from here….

And we’ll find out what happened in 3 years after everyone has forgotten it. I’m still waiting for the NTSB report on the AA/Delta near miss, runway incursion,at JFK that happened in January.

As much as we'd like to jump on the "lack of experience" band wagon, it certainly wasn't the causal factor in this case. We all have bad days and no one but the crew knows exactly what transpired. As others have said, let's let the people in the know do their thing. One huge take away from attending the USAF Safety Officer course many moons ago was that I stopped "kicking" the mishap crews. Anything can happen in any given moment to the best of us. Out of respect for our fellow pilots, let's not post any derogatory comments. Remember, **** happens and you could be next.