CRJ accident at Toronto
03-20-2025 | 08:54 AM
#702
Prime Minister/Moderator
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Prelim is out.
Short and sweet of it is approach speed was set appropriately at 149 knots per EDV guidance, power was at 64%, 175' airspeed got a bit slow at 144 knots, power remained the same, 150' airspeed spiked to 154 knots, PF brought power back to idle and remained there until touchdown. They lost the gust and the airspeed began to bleed off from there. Sink rate GPWS went off and airspeed decreased to 134 knots at touchdown where the right gear felt 3G's of force at 1098 FPM.
Sounds like a screw up all around. If going to idle is what it takes to arrest an increase in airspeed especially at 150', they should have went around. Or at the very least, only reduce power, but never go to idle and anticipate bringing it back in once the gust is lost. But go around would be the preferable and desirable course of action obviously vs trying to save it.
150' was plenty of time for the captain to intervene and either say something or take control. Both were at fault in this accident just going off the prelim.
Short and sweet of it is approach speed was set appropriately at 149 knots per EDV guidance, power was at 64%, 175' airspeed got a bit slow at 144 knots, power remained the same, 150' airspeed spiked to 154 knots, PF brought power back to idle and remained there until touchdown. They lost the gust and the airspeed began to bleed off from there. Sink rate GPWS went off and airspeed decreased to 134 knots at touchdown where the right gear felt 3G's of force at 1098 FPM.
Sounds like a screw up all around. If going to idle is what it takes to arrest an increase in airspeed especially at 150', they should have went around. Or at the very least, only reduce power, but never go to idle and anticipate bringing it back in once the gust is lost. But go around would be the preferable and desirable course of action obviously vs trying to save it.
150' was plenty of time for the captain to intervene and either say something or take control. Both were at fault in this accident just going off the prelim.
15 knots slow => big loss of lift, all else equal.
Ooops.
The part of the gear sidestay that's shown edge-on in the video looks like clean brittle overload failure. Brittle due to sudden impact, overload for obvious reasons. It doesn't show a direct view of the edge of the web between the padeyes, might be some sort of corrosion or fatigue induced failure there, which could have precipitated the overload failure of the main beam.
03-20-2025 | 09:51 AM
#704
Leaves Biscoff crumbs
Joined: Jan 2020
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From: Blue Juice Taste Tester
I suspect one possibility is a very common mistake in the CRJ:
pilot on final into a runway with gusty winds
Speed trend vector shoots and pilot corrects by pulling thrust back, possibly to idle.
gust dissipates and trend vector reverses. Now airspeed starts dropping fast.
pilot adds thrust but with the engines unspooled the thrust doesn’t respond quickly enough and the jet loses energy, exacerbating sink rate.
pilot on final into a runway with gusty winds
Speed trend vector shoots and pilot corrects by pulling thrust back, possibly to idle.
gust dissipates and trend vector reverses. Now airspeed starts dropping fast.
pilot adds thrust but with the engines unspooled the thrust doesn’t respond quickly enough and the jet loses energy, exacerbating sink rate.
03-20-2025 | 10:09 AM
#705
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03-20-2025 | 10:16 AM
#706
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
I'm not sure that means the gear and wingbox structural design limit is 720 fpm. That would imply a design failure point at 1080 fpm.
They landed at 1100fpm so maybe, but they were also banked with one gear obviously impacting first and maybe sideways too... I'm sure the design limit is based on both mains together.
03-20-2025 | 10:19 AM
#707
Leaves Biscoff crumbs
Joined: Jan 2020
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From: Blue Juice Taste Tester
That's how I understood the story from the Ex endeavor guys I've flown with recently
03-20-2025 | 10:24 AM
#708
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the captain thing was debunked. Apparently when you flow and they hold you back a few months you get a seniority number for a few months while he was still at Endeavor. I believe he was offered the flow and then didn't actually follow through in the end so he was "on the list" for 3 months but never physically on property. So he didn't fail out of training, he chose to stay.
That's how I understood the story from the Ex endeavor guys I've flown with recently
That's how I understood the story from the Ex endeavor guys I've flown with recently
03-20-2025 | 10:27 AM
#709
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,618
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Yes the press release contained obvious weasel language. No idea what the real story is but I think it's more involved than just being administratively added and then removed from the list.
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