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-   -   Avanti down in FNT (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/safety/63409-avanti-down-fnt.html)

Gators 11-20-2011 04:37 PM


Originally Posted by SenecaII (Post 1088407)
I'm not sure how to read your statement considering, because I'd hate to think they had ZERO backup data in a single engine failure. Considering how it turned out in VMC imagine had it been IMC? Avanti is Part 23 cert. I assume? Any Redundancy?

....Of course, another Gen

FlyJSH 11-20-2011 06:12 PM


Originally Posted by SenecaII (Post 1088407)
I'm not sure how to read your statement considering, because I'd hate to think they had ZERO backup data in a single engine failure. Considering how it turned out in VMC imagine had it been IMC? Avanti is Part 23 cert. I assume? Any Redundancy?


An operating generator and associated energized conductors produce magnetic fields. So, if a generator stops, those fields disappear and the magnetic environment is different from the one present when the compass was swung. At that point, the compass card will not have valid corrections.

Follow?

SenecaII 11-20-2011 08:25 PM


Originally Posted by FlyJSH (Post 1088553)
An operating generator and associated energized conductors produce magnetic fields. So, if a generator stops, those fields disappear and the magnetic environment is different from the one present when the compass was swung. At that point, the compass card will not have valid corrections.

Follow?

I thought that was what you were saying but the sarcastic tag threw me a loop.....

ScardyCat 11-21-2011 04:37 PM

I posted the preliminaries, but it got deleted by a moderator and I got an infraction. Oh, well........with all the Avantair guys posting here about multiple back-to-back duty days, 8-9 day tours, low morale, broken planes, union drivers verses management, witch hunts, understaffed OPS, PAC members firing each other.... a crash at Avantair was just a matter of time. No one wants to see a crash. This one was stupid and expensive. I wonder what it does to the thoughts of paying customers who experience a crash? I would be tempted to bail.........

mainiac 11-21-2011 06:38 PM


Originally Posted by ScardyCat (Post 1089095)
I posted the preliminaries, but it got deleted by a moderator and I got an infraction. Oh, well........with all the Avantair guys posting here about multiple back-to-back duty days, 8-9 day tours, low morale, broken planes, union drivers verses management, witch hunts, understaffed OPS, PAC members firing each other.... a crash at Avantair was just a matter of time. No one wants to see a crash. This one was stupid and expensive. I wonder what it does to the thoughts of paying customers who experience a crash? I would be tempted to bail.........

What's a "Multiple back-to-back" duty day?
Does that mean we work more than one day in a row?


For the record, I will hereby confirm that I work back-to-back duty days. Multiple times.

And I thought YOU bailed a while ago?

Gators 11-21-2011 07:07 PM

ahh...witch hunts?

Kritchlow 11-21-2011 07:46 PM

Not that it has any bearing on this accident, but not all airplanes have wet compasses.
On another note, are you saying if the P180 has a gen failure there is no way to get gen power to the other side? Two independent electrical systems with no ability to tie them together? Weird.

mainiac 11-21-2011 10:01 PM


Originally Posted by Kritchlow (Post 1089197)
Not that it has any bearing on this accident, but not all airplanes have wet compasses.
On another note, are you saying if the P180 has a gen failure there is no way to get gen power to the other side? Two independent electrical systems with no ability to tie them together? Weird.

With a single GEN failure, all busses are powered by the remaining Gen.
So, in simple terms, everything is still powered, (both "sides").

MM6830563 11-22-2011 02:19 AM

I understand this place is called "pilot lounge", but before expressing personal views with no reference to reality, please think twice.
For an Avanti II (like the one crashed in Flint) :
With a single gen, only unpowered load is freon cooling.
With a dual gen failure, you still keep powered ADC 1, AHC 1 plus EISIS (so, 2 indipendent references both for attitude and speeds)
With dual gen and battery failure (not yet to be heard on a P-180) you still have EISIS (attitude, speed, altitude, vertical speed) plus mag compass.
Mag compass is locked to about 240° hdg when pitot, windshield heaters, forward wing anti-ice and landing lights are powered.
It's there to work when everything else has failed.
Rather than italian weirdo, certification rules.
These are the facts.
For the rest, let NTSB guys do their (usually great) job.
After all, even if it's a lounge, still it's showing "pilot" on the sign

mowiepilot 11-22-2011 11:17 AM


Originally Posted by ScardyCat (Post 1089095)
I posted the preliminaries, but it got deleted by a moderator and I got an infraction. Oh, well........with all the Avantair guys posting here about multiple back-to-back duty days, 8-9 day tours, low morale, broken planes, union drivers verses management, witch hunts, understaffed OPS, PAC members firing each other.... a crash at Avantair was just a matter of time. No one wants to see a crash. This one was stupid and expensive. I wonder what it does to the thoughts of paying customers who experience a crash? I would be tempted to bail.........

How did you post the NTSB Preliminary Data when there isn't one posted on the NTSB Data web page ? (as of today 11.22)


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