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HERKDRIVER74 12-22-2011 06:10 AM


Originally Posted by jungle (Post 1106155)
My suggestion is to replace all of them with a troop of baboons. The baboons would be cheaper to keep, less destructive, honest, more intelligent, cleaner and far more amusing.
They might even make CSPAN fun to watch.:D

The term for a group of baboons is a Congress! Need I say more!

Spur 12-22-2011 06:13 AM


Originally Posted by fdx727pilot (Post 1106218)
While a nice number, it contrasts with this

FDX: Key Metrics and Competitive Analysis for FedEx - Wikinvest

which gives us $1.75 B for the whole year, and for the whole corporation vs Fedex Express. I have trouble believing the money the tech geeks and truck drivers earn us has anything to do with the cost of safely operating jets.

Fedex can still afford to operate under the new rules, but I don't think your numbers reflect the reality of our situation.

He is misinterpreting "Gross Profit". Google it. For FedEx it is essentially gross revenue. You have to subtract operating expenses, taxes, and interest to get net income, which is what most of us think of when we hear "profit."

As far as operating under part 117, I agree. Now we have a target for scheduling improvements in the CBA

Pragmatic1 12-22-2011 09:28 AM


Originally Posted by Spur (Post 1106225)
He is misinterpreting "Gross Profit". Google it. For FedEx it is essentially gross revenue. You have to subtract operating expenses, taxes, and interest to get net income, which is what most of us think of when we hear "profit."

As far as operating under part 117, I agree. Now we have a target for scheduling improvements in the CBA

Actually "He" is not misinterpreting anything. 'Gross Profit' is used in finance to measure how effectively management uses labor in the production cycle. This is a labor issue isn't it. The rule changes will impact this effectiveness. However, when you compare a FedEx annual cost of $10 to 15 million to implement the rule changes vs. a $30 billion plus GROSS PROFIT it seems quite small. Something a few cent increase in shipping cost could possibly pay for.

olly 12-22-2011 09:34 AM


Originally Posted by UPSFO4LIFE (Post 1106208)
Curious as to how you don't understand the Final ruling came from the Executive Branch of Government????? It's really not hard to comprehend. They had the final say, not congress, not the senate, and not the Supreme Court.

You are correct the executive branch of gov has a cabinent of 15 different departments: Commerce, Agriculture, veterans affairs, education, energy, Defense, Health & Human services, Homeland Security, Housing & Urban development, Interior, Justice, Labor, State, Treasury & Transportation.

The POTUS appoints the head of each cabinent member (department), but I find it unlikely that the WH staff can micromanage the minitua inside of every single rulemaking event, in every single department, unless it is extremely politically charged, with outcome that can effect the majority electorate. (i.e. the morning after pill where HHS overuled the FDA- big politically charged decision)

In this case the rulemaking inititiative had some congressional and political impetus, but unfortunately "we cargo guys" don't matter in the bigger picture of $$ & politics.

From History -the WH appoints cabinent members that align to its vision and goals, but as pointed out by others- there will never be an encompassing saviour- more of a general policy direction.

I'm disgusted by the outcome, but I applaud them for partially addressing the issue and finally making a decision for the majority of commercial pilots.

Pragmatic1 12-22-2011 09:38 AM


Originally Posted by fdx727pilot (Post 1106218)
While a nice number, it contrasts with this

FDX: Key Metrics and Competitive Analysis for FedEx - Wikinvest

which gives us $1.75 B for the whole year, and for the whole corporation vs Fedex Express. I have trouble believing the money the tech geeks and truck drivers earn us has anything to do with the cost of safely operating jets.

Fedex can still afford to operate under the new rules, but I don't think your numbers reflect the reality of our situation.

The $1.75 b number is net income. I believe I stated gross profit. Usually, two totally different items have a tendency to contrast. Gross income is an indication of the effectiveness of labor in the production cycle. Since this is essentially a labor issue, I used the gross income number to state my point. Additionally, " money tech geeks and truck drivers earn" are part of this cost" since there is essentially no product without them. I hope you also realize the cost of these drivers and tech geeks is also reflected in the net income number.

MaydayMark 12-22-2011 09:41 AM

It's nice to see the UPS union showing some leadership on this issue. Thanks UPS guys/girls ...

UPS Pilots Union to Sue FAA Over Exemption From Rest Rules - Bloomberg

KnightFlyer 12-22-2011 11:20 AM

We (FDX) just moved one more notch closer to a return to 4A2B.

Nitefrater 12-22-2011 11:23 AM


Originally Posted by olly (Post 1106333)
...The POTUS appoints the head of each cabinent member (department), but I find it unlikely that the WH staff can micromanage the minitua inside of every single rulemaking event, in every single department, unless it is extremely politically charged, with outcome that can effect the majority electorate.

You're not really that naive in real life, are you?

You seem to realize that the head of the FAA is a political appointee of the president, as is his boss, the Secretary of Transportation. Do you also realize that the OMB is full of political appointees who work directly for the president, and who are essentially an extension of the WH staff?

When the "final" NPRM left the FAA headed up the chain, it didn't have a cargo cutout. Didn't have one when it reached the OMB. When it came back down, after much industrial lobbying of the president and the NMB, it DID have a cargo cutout. You're suggesting that this change was the idea of the most junior appointee in the process, presumably after everyone above him had approved something else?

Everyone else realizes otherwise.

See: Why New Pilot Fatigue Rules Took a Rest Stop at OMB - Washington Wire - WSJ

ThePurpleScrew 12-22-2011 11:43 AM


Originally Posted by MaydayMark (Post 1106344)
It's nice to see the UPS union showing some leadership on this issue. Thanks UPS guys/girls ...

UPS Pilots Union to Sue FAA Over Exemption From Rest Rules - Bloomberg

Thank you, UPS.

FreightDawgyDog 12-22-2011 02:04 PM


Originally Posted by ThePurpleScrew (Post 1106418)
Thank you, UPS.

I think you meant "Thank you IPA". UPS worked very hard, in a very public way, to make sure the cargo cutout was there. I will be contacting my reps to make sure ALPA is a part of this as well.


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