USMCFLYR

The Associated Press: Military trainer jet crashes in Calif.; 1 dead

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...killing-pilot/

ATAC lost another jet, this time a Hawker Hunter, while returning to NAS Pt Mugu. Fair winds and following seas to the pilot, thoughts to his family, friends, and fellow ATAC members. IT has been a hard hard for all lately.

For those unfamiliar with the Hawker Hunter family of fighter/attack jets, some have called them in the past 'the A-4 for the rest of the world'.

Hawker Hunter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Same timeframe aircraft and exported to numerous countries around the world. A real gentlemen's plane to fly and a workhorse for the company as well.

USMCFLYR

Flight Test

Maybe this will incite an NTSB inquiry into why ATAC has had several airframe losses in the last few years. The ability to pull an eject lever does not really excuse totaling airframes. I know ATAC does a lot of edge-of-the-envelope flight profiles in high-skill jets. This raises a flag to those who follow aviation, as to how could their safety culture allow this to happen. I'll be honest: I suspect a lax safety culture at ATAC.

USMCFLYR

One of my interview questions TO ATAC was specifically about their safety culture and I can tell you that coming out of the military safety culture for the last 7 years I was impressed with the answer from the CEO. At that time, they had never had a Class A mishap in their 16 years of flying those older generations of fighter attack aircraft in challenging environments (think single engine, 60's cockpit (except for dual Garmin 430's), at night in formation, 100+ miles out over the ocean). Every one of their pilots is an experienced tactical aviator who brings with them not only aviation skills, but leadership at multiple levels from the USAF. USN and USMC. Take a look at the current COO:
Fmr F-15 AFWS Instructor Named as Chief Operating Officer at ATAC - MarketWatch
I've been gone awhile now I realize, but I still know many of the people in the company and I personally do not believe that the 'safety culture' is the problem. They all know the dangers, they are proactive in their safety training, and they realize that the future of the company depends on them doing it right - both operationally and with an eye towards safety. If the customers think that they are a danger to their aircraft and crews then they would be out of business.

This is a bad time. I've seen squadrons go through it too. VMFA-212 from 1995 into the 2000s was a black cloud squadron with mishaps. I haven't seen a thing mentioned in the news except for what an eye witnesses described that might lead to a clue about what brought down the jet on short final on a beautiful day (weather wise).

USMCFLYR

BDGERJMN

Blue skies. My thoughts and prayers go out to his family and friends.

Flight Test

Blue skies to the lost pilot and their family. All pilots face an elevated risk of an early death, but for some the toll comes too swiftly and unexpectedly.

-FT

eersfanpilot

Just saw this. I was riding home from NTD today when I saw lights up the road a few miles from EMS. I thought it was a car accident. A few hours later I found it it was one of the HH's. Sad day. We see these guys daily and even though we don't always interact with them they share our base and it feels like we lost one of our own.

ImTumbleweed

edited...found out. Bummer.

RIP.

USMCFLYR

I'm sure you were asking the same question many were, but as far as I know the name was just released today.

ATAC Mourns Loss of CAPT Thomas "TC" Bennett USN (Ret) 1954-2012 - PR Newswire - The Sacramento Bee

A former squadron commander, CAG-11, and XO of the USS Kitty Hawk, I have no doubt that this aviator was well versed in what constituted a successful safety culture and would take no part in operations under a company that he did not feel had the highest safety standards for its' equipment and most of all their pilots.

As a side not in the article above, this is the second fatality in less than 100 days for the company. Before this mishap, there had not been a loss of a Hunter (and no fatality) since they started flying the Hunter in 2002 with over 12,000 hrs.

USMCFLYR

ImTumbleweed

Thanks USMCFLYR,

That is what I was asking. Ending up getting a phone call from a buddy who knew the info.

Bummer, "TC" was one of "the good guys".

Hacker15e

Is this suspicion based on some personal knowledge, or something you've seen that leads you to that? Your wording here (ergo,
"edge-of-the-envelope flight profiles in high-skill jets") seems to imply you think that anyone who flies a pointy-nosed airplane and has an accident was a result of lax safety culture.

Ever professionally flown an ejection seat aircraft and not just in a test capacity, as your name implies?

In my experience, the military organizations that all of the pilots at these companies all had very strong operational safety cultures. Admittedly, I know nothing of ATAC's operations personally, but it would surprise me if at a company like ATAC these same pilots suddenly became hot-dogs. Just because they had two fatal accidents in a short period of time is not a "flag" for a lax safety culture from where I'm sitting -- I've seen some of the best-run high performance flying outfits have a couple of accidents and incidents in a short period of time. Sometimes crap just happens. These accidents took place far from the "edge of the envelope" or even in a "high skill" portion of the flight -- the last was an attempt to land in bad weather, and this one was on approach. Not exactly an area where safety issues usually pop up in the high performance flying business.

Additionally, having an ejection seat in no way fosters a, "aww, who cares, if it gets messy I'll just punch out" attitude in pilots. In fact, the #1 reason that pilots do not survive ejection attempts is a delayed decision to eject. In other words, pilots aren't quick to just pull the handles -- they more often stay with the aircraft to keep flying or problem solving until it is too late for them to be saved by the seat.