P-2V down in Utah
06-04-2012, 05:33 AM
#1
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P-2V down in Utah
2 pilots die as firefighting plane crashes in Utah - Yahoo! News
When I was recently in Alamagordo, NM I had chance to talk to a former pilot for Neptune and they seem to have an operating base out of there - at least the new FBO was heavily influenced by Neptune and their requirements according to the operators. It is sad news to hear of a loss of crew and aircraft. RIP.
USMCFLYR
Another more detailed article:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...134c2b9355791e
When I was recently in Alamagordo, NM I had chance to talk to a former pilot for Neptune and they seem to have an operating base out of there - at least the new FBO was heavily influenced by Neptune and their requirements according to the operators. It is sad news to hear of a loss of crew and aircraft. RIP.
USMCFLYR
Another more detailed article:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...134c2b9355791e
Last edited by USMCFLYR; 06-04-2012 at 06:24 AM.
06-04-2012, 07:18 AM
#2
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Joined APC: Apr 2010
Position: Pipers & RV-12
Posts: 236
P2V gear up landing
RIP to the crew and prayers for the families.
Here's a Neptune gear up landing (Left main not down) that must have happened about the same date. Looks like a pretty skillful job of keeping it on the runway as long as possible. Are those really jet engines in the pods outboard of the radials?
Rough landing for air tanker
I wonder if fatigue cracks were an issue. I believe that is what folded the wings on a fire fighting C-130 10 years ago. Here's the report: Untitled Page
The report says all of the cracks reduced the structural strength to only 50% of limit (30% of ultimate): "At the request of the Safety Board, Lockheed performed a residual strength analysis to identify the vertical load factor that would have caused the center wing lower surface to fail based on the known fatigue damage documented in the metallurgical report. Lockheed concluded from the analysis that: “The center wing failed at a load that was approximately 30 percent of the design ultimate strength of the center wing and that the presence of fatigue cracks at multiple locations and in multiple structural elements reduced the residual strength to approximately 50 percent of design limit load and compromised the fail-safe capability of the structure.” The report opined that, “Failure was likely caused by a symmetric maneuver load exceeding 2.0g during the final drop of fire retardant.”"
Interesting that they've found large cracks in the Neptune fleet (24" crack on a wing spar and skin) earlier this year: Followup on crack found on P2V air tanker
Fire fighting has to be one of the most dangerous, if not the most dangerous job in aviation. I wonder what the fatalities per 100,000 hours looks like. Grim.
Here's a Neptune gear up landing (Left main not down) that must have happened about the same date. Looks like a pretty skillful job of keeping it on the runway as long as possible. Are those really jet engines in the pods outboard of the radials?
Rough landing for air tanker
I wonder if fatigue cracks were an issue. I believe that is what folded the wings on a fire fighting C-130 10 years ago. Here's the report: Untitled Page
The report says all of the cracks reduced the structural strength to only 50% of limit (30% of ultimate): "At the request of the Safety Board, Lockheed performed a residual strength analysis to identify the vertical load factor that would have caused the center wing lower surface to fail based on the known fatigue damage documented in the metallurgical report. Lockheed concluded from the analysis that: “The center wing failed at a load that was approximately 30 percent of the design ultimate strength of the center wing and that the presence of fatigue cracks at multiple locations and in multiple structural elements reduced the residual strength to approximately 50 percent of design limit load and compromised the fail-safe capability of the structure.” The report opined that, “Failure was likely caused by a symmetric maneuver load exceeding 2.0g during the final drop of fire retardant.”"
Interesting that they've found large cracks in the Neptune fleet (24" crack on a wing spar and skin) earlier this year: Followup on crack found on P2V air tanker
Fire fighting has to be one of the most dangerous, if not the most dangerous job in aviation. I wonder what the fatalities per 100,000 hours looks like. Grim.
06-04-2012, 09:15 AM
#3
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
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Originally Posted by Fluglehrer
RIP to the crew and prayers for the families.
Here's a Neptune gear up landing (Left main not down) that must have happened about the same date. Looks like a pretty skillful job of keeping it on the runway as long as possible. Are those really jet engines in the pods outboard of the radials?
Rough landing for air tanker
I wonder if fatigue cracks were an issue. I believe that is what folded the wings on a fire fighting C-130 10 years ago. Here's the report: Untitled Page
The report says all of the cracks reduced the structural strength to only 50% of limit (30% of ultimate): "At the request of the Safety Board, Lockheed performed a residual strength analysis to identify the vertical load factor that would have caused the center wing lower surface to fail based on the known fatigue damage documented in the metallurgical report. Lockheed concluded from the analysis that: “The center wing failed at a load that was approximately 30 percent of the design ultimate strength of the center wing and that the presence of fatigue cracks at multiple locations and in multiple structural elements reduced the residual strength to approximately 50 percent of design limit load and compromised the fail-safe capability of the structure.” The report opined that, “Failure was likely caused by a symmetric maneuver load exceeding 2.0g during the final drop of fire retardant.”"
Interesting that they've found large cracks in the Neptune fleet (24" crack on a wing spar and skin) earlier this year: Followup on crack found on P2V air tanker
Fire fighting has to be one of the most dangerous, if not the most dangerous job in aviation. I wonder what the fatalities per 100,000 hours looks like. Grim.
Here's a Neptune gear up landing (Left main not down) that must have happened about the same date. Looks like a pretty skillful job of keeping it on the runway as long as possible. Are those really jet engines in the pods outboard of the radials?
Rough landing for air tanker
I wonder if fatigue cracks were an issue. I believe that is what folded the wings on a fire fighting C-130 10 years ago. Here's the report: Untitled Page
The report says all of the cracks reduced the structural strength to only 50% of limit (30% of ultimate): "At the request of the Safety Board, Lockheed performed a residual strength analysis to identify the vertical load factor that would have caused the center wing lower surface to fail based on the known fatigue damage documented in the metallurgical report. Lockheed concluded from the analysis that: “The center wing failed at a load that was approximately 30 percent of the design ultimate strength of the center wing and that the presence of fatigue cracks at multiple locations and in multiple structural elements reduced the residual strength to approximately 50 percent of design limit load and compromised the fail-safe capability of the structure.” The report opined that, “Failure was likely caused by a symmetric maneuver load exceeding 2.0g during the final drop of fire retardant.”"
Interesting that they've found large cracks in the Neptune fleet (24" crack on a wing spar and skin) earlier this year: Followup on crack found on P2V air tanker
Fire fighting has to be one of the most dangerous, if not the most dangerous job in aviation. I wonder what the fatalities per 100,000 hours looks like. Grim.
According to the second article, the kanding gear incident also happened this weekend if I remember.
No speculation on the casue from the news reports that I have seen up to this point.
The second article does mention the age of the airframes used by the contracting companies and that a few different congressmembers have asked the GAO to look into the contracts awarded by the BLM.
That C-130 mishap so many years ago was hard to watch
Age is just one factor of course. I had no problems flying older equipment as a contractor as long as I felt that the maintenance was top notch and the company gave it the high priority that it deserved.
USMCFLYR
06-05-2012, 05:35 AM
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An update with a 8 min video with scenes of the mishap area and comments from the Sheriff (including some speculation that would be better left to the NTSB investigators in my opinion).
http://www.kcsg.com/view/full_story/..._first_stories
USMCFLYR
http://www.kcsg.com/view/full_story/..._first_stories
USMCFLYR
06-07-2012, 09:33 AM
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The most updated news article that I have come across.
Nothing earth shattering in the not previously mention category, but I'll keep my eyes open.
Tanker 'heavily fragmented' after Utah crash | Indianapolis Star | indystar.com
USMCFLYR
Nothing earth shattering in the not previously mention category, but I'll keep my eyes open.
Tanker 'heavily fragmented' after Utah crash | Indianapolis Star | indystar.com
USMCFLYR
06-11-2012, 09:41 AM
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CVR/Black Box found
Voice recorder recovered in Utah air tanker crash | khou.com Houston
CVR and black box found in the PV-2 Neptune mishap.
Hopefully these will provided insight to the tragedy.
In earlier reports it made it sound like there had been an eyewitness to the crash, but this article states that the guide plane was in the area but did not see the actual mishap.
USMCFLYR
CVR and black box found in the PV-2 Neptune mishap.
Hopefully these will provided insight to the tragedy.
In earlier reports it made it sound like there had been an eyewitness to the crash, but this article states that the guide plane was in the area but did not see the actual mishap.
USMCFLYR
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