172 flips over in fairfield.
Small plane crash lands, flips over at New Jersey airport | PIX 11
Ugh I don't want to end up like that with a rental plane. |
Originally Posted by evamodel00
(Post 1627365)
Small plane crash lands, flips over at New Jersey airport | PIX 11
Ugh I don't want to end up like that with a rental plane. Hang your head and scoot away from the scene. Glad all were ok |
Note that this occurred 2/17/14
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Maybe it's just sleeping.
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If you've just touched down in a 172 at say 60 knots and you're not completely straight, can too much right rudder/nose wheel turning flip you over on your side in a tricycle gear plane? I get a little nervous sometimes pumping in a lot of rudder at once.
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Originally Posted by evamodel00
(Post 1628351)
If you've just touched down in a 172 at say 60 knots and you're not completely straight, can too much right rudder/nose wheel turning flip you over on your side in a tricycle gear plane? I get a little nervous sometimes pumping in a lot of rudder at once.
Otherwise, it's pretty hard to flip a tricycle gear airplane if you are doing things halfway right and understand it. If you touch down and are you were drifting sideways just prior to touching down, you'll still be drifting sideways on the runway after touching down. Physics say a body in motion will remain in motion. If you try to swing the nose around to bring it back to the middle because it's drifting (like you would a car), it's the completely incorrect control input and you might stuff one of the landing gear into a taxi light, sign or the soft edge of the dirt, thereby greatly increasing the chances of flipping it. Tailwheel makes a tricycle seem like cake though. |
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes
(Post 1628657)
I hope you aren't touching down at 60kts, you may approach at 60-65kts, but you're going to slow down, arrest your descent rate, and touch down at a speed far slower than 60kts. The reason I'm stressing this is that touching down at 60kts would require forcing the aircraft on the runway, which would make a pilot induced oscillation likely. While more rare in tricycle aircraft, they are still possible and I've seen the effects (there are some videos too).
Otherwise, it's pretty hard to flip a tricycle gear airplane if you are doing things halfway right and understand it. If you touch down and are you were drifting sideways just prior to touching down, you'll still be drifting sideways on the runway after touching down. Physics say a body in motion will remain in motion. If you try to swing the nose around to bring it back to the middle because it's drifting (like you would a car), it's the completely incorrect control input and you might stuff one of the landing gear into a taxi light, sign or the soft edge of the dirt, thereby greatly increasing the chances of flipping it. Tailwheel makes a tricycle seem like cake though. I'm a bit confused by what you said after though (excuse the ignorance please). You're saying if you are for instance drifting towards the left side of the runway, and you bring the nose around with right rudder, that is an incorrect control input? |
Originally Posted by evamodel00
(Post 1628731)
yes sorry that's what I meant was a 60-65kt approach.
I'm a bit confused by what you said after though (excuse the ignorance please). You're saying if you are for instance drifting towards the left side of the runway, and you bring the nose around with right rudder, that is an incorrect control input? |
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes
(Post 1629161)
And that's what you'd do with a car. Trying to "turn" it back is more like driving a car or being at taxi speeds, but the airplane is still "flying" if you've just landed. You need to counter drift with the right control, which is aileron. If you are trying to reverse your drift, you need aileron and rudder. Keep in mind that trying to turn at excessive speed on the ground can "tip" the airplane, and it becomes all that much more amplified when the airplane was already drifting in that direction, leading to a "flip" or ending up something other than right side up given how much energy was involved in the situation. I've seen lots of people "let go" of wind correction once the tires touch the ground, or not correlate to use the same corrections to correct a situation where you are off the centerline or moving towards an edge. These people usually over-relied on the nosewheel steering/rudder to do what they needed. Much of the time they get away with this with no issue, but every once and a while, it bites back.
ah ok thanks for the clarification. I did a lot of reading on it today and i believe I just need many more days practicing in the pattern. I'm also going to try and see if an instructor will teach me on his tailwheel plane. I'm assuming jumping to something less forgiving will whip me into shape to stay on that centerline. |
Originally Posted by evamodel00
(Post 1629199)
ah ok thanks for the clarification. I did a lot of reading on it today and i believe I just need many more days practicing in the pattern. I'm also going to try and see if an instructor will teach me on his tailwheel plane. I'm assuming jumping to something less forgiving will whip me into shape to stay on that centerline.
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