In effect, the early retirements had the same effect on the NWA list as they have had on the Delta list.

Hey even a broken watch tells the right time 2 times a day. Sooner or later they will be correct.

Bar,

Isn't one of the tenets of ALPA merger policy that is supposed to be considered career progression? Couldn't the arbitrators have looked at the NW retirements and their dilution caused by the merger as lost career progression? If so, I do not see that any precedent was set other than their interpretation of ALPA merger policy.

Denny

Nope, that is not what it says. Here's a cut and paste:

5. The merger representatives shall carefully weigh all the equities inherent in their merger situation. In joint session, the merger representatives should attempt to match equities to various methods of integration until a fair and equitable agreement is reached, keeping in mind the following goals, in no particular order:
a. Preserve jobs.
b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.
c. Maintain or improve pre-merger pay and standard of living.
d. Maintain or improve pre-merger pilot status.
e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.

I'm just pointing out that:
(1) The award failed to adequately consider status quo, meaning relative seniority by category and class.
(2) The career long manipulations to the list were already substantially invalidated within eight months of the award.

Also, not complaining about this merger. This one is done. Just getting my "I told you guys that you were not going to like where this is taking us" prior to the Alaska, or part of US Air, or United, or who knows what sort of transaction.

Nu wrote a very even assessment of the merger outcome. My concern is how this precedent is applied going forward.

Yawn. Too many holes to address just one. Move on.

As always, you add nothing.

Carl

Wow capn, thanks for responding to this before Bar edited it away.

Bar, from your recent posts, I had interest in reading your thoughts. That's why I had heartburn over what you were saying. But I had no idea you had this level of contempt for the DAL-N guys. Thanks for clearing it up. I won't bother even attempting dialogue with you.

Wow.

Carl

What Carl is saying is really kind of simple, but maybe people can’t see it because they are not looking at it from a pre-merger perspective. Use me as an example. I am one of the “lucky 1995” hires. When Bloch laid out the new SLI law, I wound up gaining 3-4% and was close to DAL-S guys who were hired in 1991. But, since the SLI has come out, as Carl said, those 270 pull, plug NWA pilots that were given to us, have retired. So, if the merger had occurred today, instead of last year, I would have had the 3-4% anyway. In the mean time though, if (and it’s a big if because I haven’t taken the time to look at the numbers post-PERP), 270 DAL-N guys retire in the next 2-3 years, I would have been up another 3-4%. Then, at that point, I would have been up 8% with the SLI, instead of 3-4%. Carl’s point is that past 270 or 255--whatever pull plug was applied-- for every North retirement that occurs over and above the South retirements, the North side is “sharing” the retirements that Block didn’t think would happen this soon.

And don’t get me wrong, I am NOT complaining. I am one of the DAL-N guys who try to lay low and keep my mouth shut, because I am a poster child for the South guys. When the merger went down, I could hold left seat of the 320, barely. Post merger and the SLI, I was mixed in with 73N captains and a few 767 captains, which is wonderful. Gift accepted. But, I think what Carl is saying is that for every North guy that retires from here on out, the gift becomes less and less, because it’s something a lot of North guys could have gotten anyway.

I’m still happy the merger went down because I think both companies would be hurting without the other right now. I also realize that a big push for these retirements was the PERP that NWA management probably would not have offered. But, I can also see where Carl is coming from. Basically, Bloch didn’t think this many NWA pilots would retire this quickly. (Not that he had to take retirements in to account, but he did. As arbitrator, he didn't ha to do anything though.)

The SLI is over and personally I think both sides lost in some ways, but won in many more. If the North side could have gotten the unprecedented, dynamic list then we would have won (and we would be really winning right now, or be at least tied). If the South side had gotten fences, or even decent recall rights, you would have won. But, it didn’t happen. Can’t we just move on and try to get unified for when we have to fly together and negotiate together and maybe strike together in the coming years? American pilots make more money than us AND they have a pension, don’t cha know? (Get used to it south boys, it’s Minnesotan.)

The arbitrator(s) can do whatever he or she wants, and they did it. So, now what? If you make a mistake during a checkride, do you talk about how unprecedented it was that they gave you a V1 cut with a 15K crosswind, or do you keep flying the airplane?

New K Now

Nevermind........ (Maybe I should take a break from this board)

You sir...are one class act.

Carl