OK -- we can drop the voting thing, I'm with you---let's all just vote and see where the cards fall. I still think there are plenty of people who just don't care enough to see how bad this deal is for us and will cast a sympathatic "I'll vote with the Union" vote and we will be stuck with the POS.

In the Aux --- "Jolly Knock it off"

I'm with the, "just get people to vote" crowd. And while we're at it, get them to read the LOA, not take your work it sucks/best we can do/doesn't affect me, just READ and make up their own minds. Encourage anyone you know who is inclined to either not bother to vote or just do what ALPA recommends, to read it. and read it carefully. As short as it is, it shouldn't be a hardship for even the lazyest of us.

Jolly,

1) You'r example of how our MEC is out of touch is understandable based on the vacuum from which you perceive it.
---My suggestion to you is simple. Go in to the office, no really I'm honest. I'd be glad to send you directions. Ask to sit down and talk with any MEC member or volunteer about the issues at hand. (LOA/Age 60). Attend an LEC meeting and an MEC meeting. Then tell me your opinion. In other words get some first hand knowledge on how your reps and other elected officers are discussing and managing some of the issues. In other words, take some ownership in OUR union and voice your opinion in the 'forums' that give you that opportunity. Drag a bud or two with you to these meetings and you may be surprised what you'll learn.

2)If you opened that decoder on day one that you received it the directions were on it and explained how to follow the steps to vote. I never went to any ALPA web page to read the directions on how to vote. I just followed the letter then the Ballot Point prompts on how to establish a VIN/PIN. Our MEC forwarned us starting around the JULY 12th message line that the process had changed and this LOA vote would be affected. Seems enough lead time for most. BTW isn't 2 weeks enough time to get your vote accomplished, even under such daunting new procedures as we had to face?

3) AGE 60; Basically our viewpoints on how the MEC handled this depends on if you were either in favor of or opposed the 'impending' rule change.
---I am not in favor of the change. However I understand the more politically harmful decision by our MEC and DW to make that decision. I would compare it to the decision to stay in Iraq, politically difficult and not what the majority of Americans want. Or leave, easier choice politically for George but then must deal with the after effects of leaving prematurely. So in a democratic society and also Union representation, some decisions will be left to those we voted into office while other issues will, by their nature have a requirement for membership ratification. Can you therefore conclud that our MEC is therefore out of step with its members? I think they new full well the outpouring of negative sentiment that would follow and were willing to face that in terms of a more favorable outcome of the whole age 60 issue.
4)If you do feel so strongly as to the direction our MEC is going and haven't been happy then do more than gripe about it on this board. Run for a block rep job or volunteer for one of the many commitees that do so much work for us on a daily basis.

??????????????????

FDX1,

Here's a question for you as you roll in on Jolly. Did the UNION get this LOA modified officially with an FCIF or did guys b1tching on the internet and not showing the "appreciation and respect" to the MEC get this changed?

What do you HONESTLY think? Everything I read from the MEC said "take it or leave it" , and MH even wrote "with us or without us..." Who helped facilitate this change?

Our MEC (with some exceptions) rubber stamped this POS and wrote off the potential for a bunch of junior guys to get inversed for up to 90 days because they didnt' "think" it would go junior. They made this concession with zero input from the force. Only when we revolted and ripped off their heads did anyone even DISCUSS making changes. I seriously doubt anyone was planning to go beyond the "intent" email signed by JL until this afternoon when they did their own surveys or peeked on here and realized this pig wasn't going to float.

Regardless of how you feel on the changes--give a little credit where its due. Jolly has been one of the guys who helped improve this LOA. Maybe you should take some of the MEC members up to HIS house with a few of THEIR friends so they can say "thanks".

It's still a POS.

Just get the people to vote NO...

Well said FDX1 ... Well said indeed

Somehow I knew you would be the one to follow in. Answer to your question:

This LOA is NOT OFFICIALLY modified until I see an amendment to the LOA with a signature from our MEC officers and the NC Chairman saying so. Otherwise this is still a promise from the Company and not in the LOA!

If that FCIF becomes part of the LOA with the Union's agreement then great. Who gets the credit? Probably the Pilots who have spoken up during the road show presentations and the numerous pilots that have e-mailed questions in to JL and certainly this and other public forums that have allowed a look inside. THe obvious flaws on this thing have become apparent thru numerous venues and to weigh one against the other would be a disservice to all and also just a lousy guess.

This was just my intent however if you read my response to Jolly. Reading some of your posts, I believe you are similarly convinced that to simply B1tch on this board about any 'pilot issue' is not enough. Take some ownership and action and start getting involved with Union activities. Paying your dues is not enough. The guys on this forum are the type that are truly interested in the issues but should take it a step further and get involved in the trenches. Too many of our fellow pilots are willing to let this Union get run by the 'other guys' and trudge along until something really Shi77y is about to happen. Then we all become internet activists.

And yes thanks to everyone that has taken the time out to let the MEC and their elected reps know what is wrong with this LOA and stepping up to ask the tough questions to Management. Lets hope that a few more 'issues' are brought up as re-negotiable and enter the final LOA. The obvious fixes are in plain view.

So back to the question, does the MEC have it act together? Not on this LOA.

I know it is my fault I should have sat in on a couple of the NC meetings, maybe gone to HK. It is a weak excuse but my copy of the calendar must have been lost in the mail.