I personally haven't heard the official numbers on upcoming realignment/displacement bids, but look at it this way: there will at least be one more this year to cover the rest of the 747 classic crews. But, if I had to be a bettin' man, I would say 2 more this year - this summer, then late this year. I would tend to believe that the second one will start displacing DC-8 crews. Everything that we have heard, up to this point, has said that the -8 crews will remain staffed AS IS until peak, then they would start to draw down the crews.

This can all change tomorrow. I'm sure UPS's plan for the -8, as well as everyone else will change millions of times before we even get to that point.

To all of you new folks coming over to the -8 panel: if you are a probie, and we get to fly together, dinners are on me. I would say drinks to, but our trips are too short for that (but if we can, that is on me as well). To the rest of you, you guys can buy me dinner! Just kidding! We'll take care of you.

How long is DC-8 F/E Training?

How long would you think a probie displaced to the panel can expect to stay there?

How many DC-8's are being retired each year over the next few years?

TIA

FE training: about 2 weeks ground, 10 sims, 1 checkride. When I went through, all of my newhire classmates on different fleets were up 'till 2-3 am studying, while I was sleeping. The "hardest" part was some of the sims, and that was only because for 2 hours, all you do are abnormal checklists! You finish one, and lo and behold, another yellow light! One good thing: we have great instructors!

How long will one be displaced? That is a million dollar question. I wouldn't think more than 2 or 3 years.

How many a/c to be retired? Another good question. I haven't seen set numbers in writing. 3 have been retired to KROW already this year, don't think they brought any out storage, but, I would expect quite a few retirements next year.

RVR,
The D@m CPT better buy the dinners for all of you!


It is 2 week of systems, old style, by a human instructor standing in front of you. No CBT. Sims are a going at about 3 weeks. It is dependent on several factors. You will paired with another S/O partner and some front seaters if available. Since several Capts coming over, may have some of those, most will get sim support from a front seater on RSV.

Not sure, dependent on what UPS does on next bid. Last week at a meeting in the Training Center, UPS projected to stay at 32 DC-8's through 2010. That is a trend up. Presently 36 on property. That being said, your eye needs to be on the stated UPS position to draw down crews on all airframes. Believe we will see a draw down on the 8 on all seats and the metering of the over 60 S/O's to the front seats will be set to minimize more displacements to S/O seat.

Salty,

As a newhire, I never expected it. Unfortunately, it happened far less than it ever actually happened. When it did, though, I was EXTREMELY grateful. The CAPT'S and FO's that did treat were very, very generous. And my motto is to treat new guys like I was treated by the generous ones. We have some really great captains out there, but many don't see it the way you do.

Perfect story: out to dinner, 4 of us: me, a newhire 727 FO, my CA, and the new hire's FE (a ROPE). Fairly pricey Italian eatery. When the bills came, I waited to see if either of the older guys would pick up the new hire's tab. Neither did, so I reached over and grabbed it. He said that I didn't have to pay for him, and I told him that I knew I didn't have to - IT WAS JUST THE RIGHT THING TO DO! I myself was just off probation, but it didn't matter. Oh, well. What can you do?

Sounds good. I live an hour from RFD.

Shag,
We buying some more 8's?

JUP

If the next ANC 747 bid (this summer) has 20 CPT and 30 FO original vacancies, there should be over 45 ANC FO positions available (almost all of the senior ANC FO's from this last bid will be upgrading to the CPT slots, creating recurring ANC FO vacancies).

There were only 7 ANC FO bidders who did not get an award this time. There are 26 new DC8 FE's who will be able to bid next time (if off probation).

If the past is a predictor of the future, there will be many unfilled ANC FO vacancies next bid. I think the bid with the final Classic displacements will come later in the fall. If it is included in the next bid, then that would add about 50 front-seat eligible displacements to the mix.

Actually, it wouldn't make sense for UPS to add those upgrades in one bid, and just displace them in the next bid. I suppose we'll need to hear more from UPS when they get in the mood for talking again. Last time I tried, they wouldn't speculate beyond this displacement.

Does all this mean no hiring this year?

Shaggy, why all the doom and gloom? Just like your stratotanker days. Have you talked to manpower about your numbers? They don't seem to add up.