Can you elaborate on how L-Ual pilots have owned and controlled their culture?

It starts in 83 and 85. CAL lost, United won. Read Wooden Wings, a UAL MEC doc.

CAL management has integrated and rewarded scabs for strike breaking. They are retiring on the B787, the scabcab... they shouldn't even be there... those are union pilot jobs. It is so accepted as the norm that CAL ALPA allowed scabs into committee positions. Jay Pierce is a scab sympathizer... to the point where the 05-07 hires don't know any better... thankfully there are real CAL unionist among the ranks and I can only imagine their frustration over the years.

the IACP union, formed by scabs, took the management bait of being 'partners' with management and it occurred till last month. Its a scam. Look at the CAL union performance thru the JCBA and ISL. Pathetic. and the CAL guys are still in shock and recovering from the concussion of incompetence. Bromancing Bethune just plays into their never ending mantra of screwing labor. Whenever a CAL pilot tells me "you don't know this management" the translation is.... "I am powerless and I don't know how to fight back. My union is worthless and I'm owned"

At UAL there is a cadre of pilot managers that protect the pilot culture. If a United manager gets Stockholm syndrome and starts pushing a pilot to the company's whim, that pilot manager is reminded that he was on the pilot seniority list before he took he management job, and he'll be on it when he leaves the management job.

The UAL MEC committee positions are elected by the MEC... notice last month there was a wholesale cleansing of the committee structure.... in part that is how United owns and controls the pilot culture... as it should be. I am not saying is total or there isn't room for improvement. Yet all the APA does is issue bravado press statements and the DAL guys will sell grits on the streets of ATL before anything happens.

Should anyone else, besides the pilots, own and control their culture?

Oh yea we have controlled our culture. Lets see 85 as you say, collapsed and ened up in court. We have our pension, oops sorry no thats gone. Our retro, oops sorry no that was 30% on the dollar, our sca-- are on their own, apparently you don't see the international operation and the crews going out with them.

Not saying it's as bad as the other place but I crack up when I read about ual pilots and how it all works.

You can say SCAB. The fact that you don't says something about you.

Sure it does ron, so what does it say about me? Wow nice that you said scab and I didn't. Let me guess you are one of the 99% that voted to strike last year and then ran and voted for this contract.

Probably from standing firm, fighting management for livable work rules, and not letting a scab-like management friendly culture take over.

That's my guess.

That's great! Can you give me some concrete examples of standing firm and fighting management?

So... Back to the UAL pool-ies

Anyone know the average time between indoc and sims? Couple days? A week?

Well, I made you say scab....so there.

I guess you did but it has been said before and yes while walking a line. But hey I guess you win.

Tonne, sorry if we took over, your right this should be back to the poolies and best of luck to all of you.