Class G IFR - Page 2 - Airline Pilot Central Forums

#11

rickair7777 , 01-17-2008 11:59 AM

Prime Minister/Moderator

Quote:

Originally Posted by Photon

Speaking of IFR regulations, in regards to:
"§ 91.175 Takeoff and landing under IFR."
C) Operations below DA/DH or MDA

When listing the visual references, one of these are:
(vi) The visual approach slope indicator.

This is something that has like different opinions all over our school.
Visual approach slope indicator is VASI right, so if you see the PAPI lights on a runway, does that not qualify you to descend below DA/DH/MDA? PAPI isn't VASI etc... what do you guys think

The term "Visual Approach Slope Indicator" in 91.175 is a generic term that means any such visual glideslope device (papi, vasi, tri-color, etc).

The regs are not always worded perfectly, but in the vast majority of such cases the FAA enforces the intent. There is more flexibility in administrative law than in criminal law.

#12

rickair7777 , 01-17-2008 12:01 PM

Prime Minister/Moderator

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cubdriver

So how does one prove they were flying in accordance with instrument flight regulations when seen punching clouds without having filed an instrument flight plan? That would be my thought in regard to departing IFR from a class G airstrip in Alaska or somewhere that there are no DPs. You would want to protect yourself legally. I have heard stories about people getting busted for not complying with class G vfr mins in such situations.

Why would you have to prove it? They would have to prove you weren't legal, which would be hard to do unless you actually violated a reg which they could objectively measure (ex. currency).

#13

Scooter2525 , 01-17-2008 12:21 PM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

We used to depart out of airports in the Sierra's in CA, VFR, climb up to as high as 11,500' msl and perhaps enter the clouds (staying above the grid MORA), contact ATC (Oakland Center), get our clearance, and then climb into class E airspace above 12,000' msl.

So with that said, would you depart out of the same airport if vis was 0-0?

I'm just trying to understand this for general knowlege more then anything. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable departing out of an airport that was 0-0 in moutians area (ex: sierras) unless I was in an f-22 that could shoot strait up to fl 180 or something... hahaha. But seriously, I gather that its leagal to depart out of airports in Class G with 0-0 and no DP (I guess there wouldnt be a dp in any class G) under IFR as long as you maintain terrerain seperation (duh). If you want to enter class E, you would have to have prior clerance. Is my thinking inline with the LEGAL portion of the regs?

#14

rickair7777 , 01-17-2008 12:33 PM

Prime Minister/Moderator

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooter2525

Under part 91, you can depart out of ANY airport in zero/zero. Some GA pilots do it, but I would not. Also some airports will prudently shut down in low vis to avoid liability (but they are not required to do so by FARs).

If you have an instrument failure on the roll or shortly after T/O you're toast.

If you have an engine failure, you'll never see the object that hits you.

My personal minimum is to have high enough ceilings to lose the engine, configure, and still have some time and visibility to pick a spot to land.

#15

Photon , 01-17-2008 01:08 PM

Blue Skies

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcartier713

I'm 99.9% sure the PAPIs count even tho they are not specifically listed... they are part of the approach lighting system, so if they are "distinctly visible and identifiable" then there should be no reason they wouldn't count.

how do you guys pronounce "VASI?" vASSee or vAHsee

Vahsee on my part

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickair7777

Ok, nice to know then

. Just been a constant subject here at school