I like the idea also. One benefit you could bank on; The hotel van would ALWAYS be waiting there for you on a short overnight. The airlines would ACTUALLY make sure that the hotel was providing prompt pick ups as not to affect the rest time the next day.

UAL's pre 9/11 contract had a provision that their rest period didn't start till arrival at the hotel.

Yet another way the paper pushers put money ahead of safety.

What do you mean? The FAA has been helping in that regard way before the paper pushers at UAL.

I was too brief. The management gets this out of the contract, so the crews have less time to rest, and show up at the airport tired if they get stuck in traffic. The company saves a few bucks in per diem etc...

The company is NOT saving ANY money on per diem. They pay you by the hour for time away from base, regardless of how much time you spent in the hotel.

Well I suppose they're just screwing pilots out of their rest time then. I was of the opinion that they did that to save a buck SOMEWHERE. Maybe they do it just for fun now. Who knows?

They save money through stability of schedule. If they had to slide departures by 15-30 minutes to account for a slow hotel van, there would be missed connections and added cost. That is why we have the convoluted rest system in 121 as opposed to the hard 10 hours in 135. Its all about maintaining the schedule.

At FedEx we put people on "hotel standby" in any city we need coverage. Sometimes this is built right into the monthy lines. Sometimes crew scheduling will take a reserve pilot and build him a trip that is nothing more than a deadhead to the hotel and a week of availability periods, then a deadhead back to base.

Listen Skipper, I think you're getting your panties in a wad over nothing. Yes, some of the rest periods are short. Yes, with a min-rest overnight (8 hours) you are lucky to see a bed for 6 hours. But thats the nature of the beast. First of all, by basing the release time off of an "officially recorded" time ie the IN time, there is no question between the company, the hotel and the crew about when the rest period began. Are you ever sliding into bed 15 minutes after you block in? No. But like another poster mentioned, if you get in late, haven't had a chance to eat and the van driver takes you through a drive-thru, now you've added say 10 minutes to your travel time. If the rest period started at arrival at the hotel now you have the company, the hotel and the crew all pointing fingers about why it took 10 minutes longer to get to the hotel (and now departure is delayed 10 more minutes in the morning). Personally, I'd rather have the chance to eat than have the van driver say "well, the restaurant is closed, theres nothing within walking distance around the hotel but I've got to get you from airport to hotel in 12 minutes or else". Helloooo vending machine dinner...

At my company (XJET), a timer starts at block in. If the hotel van has not picked you up within 30 minutes of block in then you walk over to the taxi stand and get a cab. I'm not sure of the contract between the hotel and the company but I believe it is on the hotel's dime (the way they protest when you tell them that, you'd believe it was coming out of the front desk person's pocket!). Sometimes, depending on the length of the line for a taxi, it's faster to wait for the van but sometimes at an outstation where the hotel is 10 minutes away theres no excuse for the van taking 30 minutes to get there. Personally, I give the hotel 2 calls for the van to get there (1st call: they tell me van will be there in X minutes, usually I'm still in the airplane deplaning or in the terminal walking out. 2nd call: after the time they told me has elapsed and no van, I call again. If they tell me it should be another X minutes and thats more than 30 minutes then its time to start thinking about a cab.)

Now, if any of this bothers you and you ever feel too tired to fly you have an ace in your back pocket - the F BOMB! You say the word "fatigued" to a scheduler or whoever is pressuring you to take a departure time and it will usually shut them up. If they keep pushing it, you just say "look, I'm banging in fatigued and I will be fatigued until XX:XX. Period" Not a lot they can do to argue with you and no one will make you fly if you call in fatigued. Now, if you make a habit of it, be prepared to deal with an employee assistance program or company referral to a medical professional for "chronic fatigue" but thats more a way for the company to irritate you in the name of making sure you're "healthy". I knew a guy who got referred to his employee assistance program for alcoholism because every time the company would call to junior man him he would tell them he couldn't take the flight because he had just had a beer...even if it was 7 in the morning (this was in the days before caller ID). I got a kick out of it but he didn't seem happy about it.

If these are realities you aren't prepared to deal with then you might want to reconsider your chosen profession or at the very least, find a company that takes crew rest very seriously.

As far as your question on reserve time and crash pads, consider it the cost of having the flexibility to live where ever you want in the country or the world and still do this job. I can't think of any other job that allows you that flexibility.

That's the FAA regulation - it's not a contract issue unless you can get your contract written to give you more rest.