Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
The union choice (right) is ongoing. A vote is an action. We've executed our ongoing right on 3 occasions with action... via a vote.
We both agree that neither JA, the SkW board, nor most shareholders want a union. What you don't seem to fully acknowledge is that collectively, the pilots here don't want a union either. Our company and its employees are consistent on this issue.
Introducing a scenario that would most probably alter that would not be appreciated by any of the stake holders listed above.
I think we are saying the same thing. I'm just saying that if JA integrated pilots, it would result in another vote. We know he and others don't want. So in essence, he does not want his SKW pilots to have the ability to collectively bargain. That is all I'm saying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
We all agree that Don was a bad deal. The former chief pilot who fired Don is now just a lowly pilot with the rest of us. A judge didn't force SkW to reassign him. Management did, for hopefully obvious reasons.
With the very rare exception of that former CP, the pilots feel that we have a largely good group running the show. Sounds like XJT pilots feel the same way.
Don's situation was an exception, and not the rule. And in the end, whether Don was at SkW or XJT, the process was similar. A third party adjudicated the end result. I predict you'll want to then point out that ALPA would have paid for his legal bills, but also point out that he didn't spend two decades paying dues either. And all his legal bills are covered as part of the judgment (to my knowledge, anyway).
The process is not similar. This would not have reached a court if it happened at XJT. DD would have also not have had to gamble paying his legal fees in hopes he wins and gets it back. Being a member of a union is not just having people behind you during these situations as you should know with your past union experiences. There are many other services you get from your dues that are a more expensive than what you pay, especially in ALPA.
We really don't have these kinds of situations happen here at XJT because our CPs know that it would be overturned very quickly. I was just giving you a hard time about DD because you mentioned "horror stories" but we tend to have the opposite horror stories of guys that should have been disciplined more harshly but didn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
Tired old rhetoric. You're entitled to you opinion, and so are we.
Its not rhetoric. And its not an opinion. Fact is that the small number of rights you have as at-will employees, unionized employees already have. But unionized employees have more "rights" which means that there is a higher opportunity for someone to "trample, disregard, and violate." Again, you should know this from your past experience. Its like the old saying about twin engine aircraft, you have twice as much of a chance of having an engine failure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
Lockheed treats their employees better than the FAA. My opinion. But I'm not a proponent of privatized government and user fees.
The biggest issue in the change over from government to private is the grotesque way employees are treated... yes, union employees. Guys with 24 years and 364 days of federal service... sorry Charlie, no retirement pension for you !
It should be law to offer a pro rata pension. Don't worry, if we get McSame in the White House, you will see LockMart, Boeing, or whoever sucking off the government teet for ATC services.
To bring this back to XJT guys coming to SkW, the union issue will be the single biggest issue for we SkW pilots. Not list integration... that would be easy. So, again, I predict that XJT (if bought) would be held separate, like ASA, or merged with ASA. You and I can disagree on the reasons why that might transpire.
You contradict yourself. You said that, "Lockheed treats their employees better than the FAA." But then you said, " The biggest issue in the change over from government to private is the grotesque way employees are treated." I'm sure you used this example because LM did this to FSS employees. I wouldn't say that LM treats their employees better than the FAA when the first thing they do is say, "sorry Charlie, no retirement pension for you!" Especially when Charlie had 24 years and 364 days of federal service.
Also, don't forget that it was algore who started this whole privatization thing rolling when he was VP. They are all McSame!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
This potentially brings value to SkW shareholders, with the associated risks. For line pilots at SkW, there's not much in it. Our pay isn't going up or down, and according to you, the only thing we have to look forward to is a union that 65% of us don't want.
While I don't foresee your outcome, I do see greater benefits for XJT pilots than SkW pilots.
I don't foresee a pilot integration either. Sorry if I mislead you on that. It was just an academic discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
Actually, I'm kinda interested what you think would be bad for you too. Certainly the obvious one being a shut down of XJT at-risk flying resulting in furloughs (at least that's what folks are emailing to me). I guess if we're merged and then that happens, we'll just take the junior SkW guys and put them on the street. Problem solved.
I don't think you would see any SKW pilots furloughed if SKW shuts down XJT's at-risk flying. Not unless there is a pilot integration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
There is no reason for XJT pilots to willingly give up scope as it is currently written in their CBA just to make this deal happen. There is no tangible upside to doing so, only an abstract belief doing so will allow SKW "save" the company. Do I think the CBA language causing SKW to balk could be bought? Yes, I do. What will it cost to do so? I personally think a legally binding agreement between XJT ALPA and SKW, Inc. signed by Jerry Atkin, guaranteeing no loss of the current number XJT pilot jobs or airframes flying CAL colors...but I guess we'll see.
I like the idea of any of the 274 aircraft (or whoever many SKW takes in the deal) would have to be flown by pilots on the XJT seniority list.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
The answer is yes. And, yes, I also thought they were going to let it go.
Naturally, there's more to the story than meets the eye...
First I heard of this. I guess there is more to the story than meets the eye. Who's going to pay DD's legal fees this time? I think that even if he had been paying dues for twenty years, he would have recouped all of it just trying to fight to keep his job!
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Originally Posted by HappyBudha
Skywest will buy the assets of XJT and not the people. I think it will be their terms or no job.
XJT pilots do have some leverage to get their terms seeing as that SKW wants the Holding Letter gone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
Sawlly Chawlie, you get no buyout.
Unless, the XJT deal falls through.
09-05-2011
AIRLINE
), CAL will make sure of that, it simply isn't in their interest to let it escalate to that.
