Teamsters and ALPA -- Compare and Contrast - Page 3

#21

Tiredoflies , 03-31-2015 07:52 PM

New Hire

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oskeewowow

Teamsters are useless. They have no clue how to run a union for pilots. In our local, we have secretaries making six figures

Same here. I have seen nothing good to help any of us.
They know what we are doing is wrong.
Useless concrete mixers.
More of there area of expertise.
ALPA would have been better choice.
Look at southern and Kalitta, useless representation.

#22

FEtoFO , 04-08-2015 04:42 PM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oskeewowow

Teamsters are useless. They have no clue how to run a union for pilots. In our local, we have secretaries making six figures

And this is why we pay more in dues and assessments then ALPA. I brought her pay up to CM last year and he stated her pay rate was our (local 357) choice. Btw she makes around 80k a year per the books. I'm more concerned with the attorneys we have on the payroll and the ridiculous assessment.

#23

Hetman , 04-11-2015 03:32 AM

Gets Weekends Off

I can't speak to ALPA as I have never been at an ALPA carrier. I can say, however, that having been associated with three Airline Division Locals I am extremely impressed with the Teamsters.

Please note I did not say the impression is favorable, only that it is extreme.

#24

Bonanzer , 04-19-2015 03:20 PM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by FEtoFO

Alpa is 1.95% of gross
Teamsters are 1.56% of guarantee
Even with the assessment I doubt we pay more. An office manager making more the a current republic fo and some captains is ridiculous anyways!

#25

sailingfun , 04-20-2015 06:57 PM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by longhauler

The people I have been associated with that have been ALPA would not support your statement. Most of the people who have lost millions of dollars worth of pensions (Delta, UA) or the one who lost their jobs and the company continued to operate (Emery). First ALPA is an association as it states in the title. Second professionals don't refuse to come to the table and offer help when help is needed (Some of the Delta pilots wanted to approach the company for temporary give backs when the Sh*t hit the fan after 9/11. DALPA state they can come and ask for help. Well management helped themselves to the pensions.) I have not figured out how ALPA at the regional level has helped, especially when most of the regionals are beholden to the major for their flying and ALPA majors give more total dollars to the pot than the regional guys. I think a few of the TWA guys might also disagree with ALPA also.
All in all neither is perfect you have to chose you poison, get involved and make the best of it. It will never be perfect.

You have a very poor understanding of what happened with the Delta pension plan.

#26

FR8Dog7 , 04-25-2015 12:46 AM

O.T. Freight Dog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonanzer

Alpa is 1.95% of gross
Teamsters are 1.56% of guarantee
Even with the assessment I doubt we pay more. An office manager making more the a current republic fo and some captains is ridiculous anyways!

WRONG! Teamsters is 1.56% of EVERYTHING! Gross, overtime, profit sharing, home study, EVERYTHING!

#27

Scraggly Heron , 04-25-2015 02:43 AM

Line Holder

Quote:

Originally Posted by 757upspilot

The pilots at UPS found that the Teamsters airline division as it existed in the early 90's was not working for us. This was in large part because the Teamsters national decided that we as a group did not have the experience to run our own local, they invalidated our elction of representatives. The pilots who had been elected to offices to represent us then took a huge risk and started the in house organization, both the Teamsters and UPS fought this.
The formation of the IPA required a huge effort on the part of every pilot on the property, money contributions, letting the guys starting the union know they where backed, and when a single line pilot was cut from the pack to be sacrificed by management letting the company know that we as a group of pilots would not tolerate this ( on a couple of occasions when a pilot was being berated by management they where actually surrounded by line pilots in the area which brought this practice to a stop).
Look at how soon you as a group will be allowed to run your own local, how much initial support you will have from the national, who you have willing to step up and take on the positons that require a very high level of courage, look at your fellow line pilots and see if you have a group willing to go toe to toe with the company. This is what you as a union and a pilot group must have, if you don't no union national or in house will accomplish a thing. If you have a group who wants to sit back and not participate on a daily basis , volunteer for committees, give up time , etc you will not reach the objectives. You will find that the pilots who complain the most about the union are the ones who are willing to contribute the least if at all or curry favor with management.
If we did not have an in house union at UPS I would favor being ALPA, while I have walked the picket with the Teamsters and been represented by them at two different companies, I think that ALPA has a better understanding of the needs of pilots.
Either is better than not having one and neither is any good without the resolve and support of the pilots they represent.

Good Luck

Honest question (I promise I'm not trying to stir anything up):

Why is IPA only at UPS? It seems like it's viewed pretty favorably from what I've read here.

#28

Roundup , 02-27-2016 11:21 AM

Line Holder

Teamsters has never figured out the airline division. Unfortunately, ALPA has. It's hard to find the information but ALPA learned how to totally ruin one pilot group in order to help another. Frontier versus United is an example but Braniff also felt the love. Of course having a republican as a union leader helped. Duffey and reagan were very sympatico. Duffey made sure pilots crossed on the controllers which effectively set the tone for the next 30 years.

#29

DC8DRIVER , 04-29-2016 11:40 AM

Gets Weekends Off

Been a member of both ...
The success of a union depends more on the intelligence and experience of the local council and the cohesiveness of the pilot group than the particular union HQ. Both have strengths and both have weaknesses. The choice would also depend on whether you are a regional, a national, a major, or a freight/charter company. Generally speaking ALPA tends to be a better advocate for the majors. Generally. Teamsters may have an advantage with a freight company when the truckers honor a pilot strike. Of course, FedEx is ALPA, and they have a reasonable contract, so being the size of a major may favor the ALPA playbook for them.
But, again, you need a smart EXCO/MEC and a unified pilot group to have any real success with whichever union you end up with.

8

#30

Roundup , 05-05-2016 07:19 PM

Line Holder

ALPA lost its collective mind during the 80's. We had a republican as MEC Chair and thousands of pilots on the street. If you want references for ALPA, I recommend asking any Braniff, Eastern, Continental or Frontier pilots. Or even a former member of PATCO. There's a reason no large ALPA carrier has risked a strike in 30 years.