Is this Nancy Pelosis fault?

Well we switched our Falcons to scheduled stuff for UPS, On demand seems to have died

nah...bush's

Certainly not the UAW's.

You sure your a union member? It's not that Detroit is out of touch with the market but that it's that the employees make too much? Didn't they just give all sorts of concessions in the last round of negotiations? Just shows that you might as well not bother with concessions when asked, wait until you are forced, cause they are going to come back at you like you never gave anything anyway. We see it happen in the airline industry time and time again and we are seeing it here now too. I guess that there shouldn't be any such thing as a pre-emptive give back.

Looks like 1981 all over again . Why ship stuff fast to a factory that isn't making stuff that anyone can buy. If I recall correctly the on demand out of YIP ended up down to Chief Pilots and Check Airmen flying the one airplane to keep the certificate active.

You are right it has nothing to do with GM paying 75 bucks an hour and toyota/BMW/Honda paying 40. It has nothing to do with the 2500 bucks per vehicle legacy health care and pensions costs. But don't worry we will soon have union membership by intimidation so Toyota/Honda/Nissan/Walmart will have to pay up soon. Or they can move their jobs elsewhere.

It has nothing to do with the democrats refusing to stabalize the oil markets and destroying the credit market? Out of touch with the automobile market? Where I live you see three pickups/SUV/Xovers for every two cars. There is plenty of in touch with the market, it is simply you get a better truck for the same money when you buy an American made Toyota/Nissan/BMW. There is plenty of blame to go around, Bush, Congress, Management but you don't think the UAW deserves any?

PS You are right about concessions; give nothing back because they are just going to go bankrupt six months later anyways.

Oh this is going to get interesting...

lag,

I have to say I agree with you. I hope that, before the gov't bails them out, that they will really have a viable plan to stay in business. It won't do much good to lend them 25-50 billion just to have them blow through that in 6 months or so. They will have the same problems then that they have now. Unfortunately, fixing the business means pay cuts by all, becoming more efficient, closing product lines and hopefully producing a car that people want to buy.

I heard the execs make every excuse imaginable. It's the economy. It's the credit markets. While this is true, it also a making a lousy automobile. They haven't helped themselves much. Flying to Congress in private jets (take an airline, at least to this meeting), the UAW saying it isn't their fault and they refuse to take concessions.

I think a bankrupt auto industry is catastrophic for the economy, but if they can't make themselves viable, why lend them the money? We will have the same problem later next year.

Don't worry...a moderator will be with you shortly .