jedinein

I think that decimal was a little off. Don't you mean $17.5 per hour, door closed to door open?

BrownClown

I'm just curious where you think the golden parachutes and management bonuses come into play? The 3 CEO's in Detoilet made bonuses last year of between 23 and 32 million. The CEO of Toyota made 1 million. Maybe those costs need to be in line as well!

FDXLAG

The difference between you and me is I say they are all at fault. President, congress, manglement and the UAW. You obviously see no problem with 2500 per vehicle cost that has nothing to do with production of said vehicle.

BrownClown

Actually, you seem to lay more blame on the worker than anyone else. Where in my post did you see [U]anything[U] about what my thoughts were regarding the 2500 cost per vehicle?

767pilot

So when you retire, you will have a problem with customers paying for your pension and health care costs, even though it has nothing to do with getting their package to them? As far as they would be concerned, why should they pay for that?

Jetjok

Let's not forget that the benefits the UAW workers, both the active workers as well as the retirees, receive are and were negotiated. As for the automotive customers paying the workers pension and health care costs, well frankly that shouldn't be an issue, because of course they are paying for them. Again, these are negotiated benefits. If the auto companies didn't plan for and fund their retirement and health care funds appropriately, and then manage and grow those funds, so that they will be viable in the future, why is that the fault of the workers?

There is certainly enough blame for this fiasco to go around, from the politicians (both state and federal), to the auto industry itself, including but not limited to their executives as well as their workers (and union), to the financial sector, and finally to the consumer himself. However, in my opinion, the government will have to again bail out an industry that dug its own grave, through years of mismanagement and missed opportunities, which now has one leg in that grave and the other on a banana peel, because to walk away from them is almost financially impossible, based on all the lives that are touched by the pay and benefits paid to automotive workers, their retirees, and all the industries and businesses that serve the auto industry. I believe it's something like 11 or 12 people who would be affected by each auto industry worker or retiree, losing their salary, health care benefits or pension. That's a lot of folks, folks.

JJ

iarapilot

I would agree. It is a quagmire of fault that can be passed around.

767pilot

Nobody seemed to raise an issue about how much the workers made at Morgan Stanley or AIG and you can bet that they were paid more than the line guy at an auto plant. When it is a chance to take a shot at organized labor, whether it be the UAW or a group of airline pilots, people from all quarters tend to jump all over it. Go figure.

Jetjok

I'm not taking a shot at organized labor, but a big part of the auto industry problem is that you can't have people on an assembly line earning substantially more money than the people who are purchasing the products made on that line, that plus the fact that either by design, or by manufacturing processes, those products are of less quality than the competition's, while at the same time, costing more, both initially as well as over the long term, and ending up with less residual value at the time the customer wants to replace said product.

FDXLAG

What I object to is a guy at the toyota plant in TX having his taxes raised to bail out GM because the democrats owe the UAW, go figure. The pensions were negotiated great, keep paying up till the tank runs dry. What you don't want to admit is until they dump the $2500 per vehicle in legacy cost they will never be competitive. Unless their other labor costs get in line they willl never compete. They will keep cutting factories and jobs until nothing is left. You feel for the employees, terrific; I am looking out for their best interest. Go figure.