Ok, here's a scenario. You're an ATP certificate holder (mins in []'s). You have 1500+TT [1500], 800PIC [250], 700XC [500], 400PIC-XC [100], 75 Night [100], 45 Night-PIC [25], 188 Instr./60 Actual [75/50].

You don't have the Night minimum, but since you have 100 night landings, you have 25 available to credit towards that, which covers the 100 hours required.

You meet all the 135 IFR mins EXCEPT the night requirement. 135 IFR requires 100 hours night, and doesn't seem to give a night landing credit.

Are you not able to act as PIC for an IFR 135 operation? Does holding an ATP trump that requirement?

Nope. 135.243 requires 100 hours night. there is no credit for landings like the ATP.

At first glance I would agree with propjunkie.

propjunkie is exactly right the same thing kept me from an upgrade at Grand Canyon Airlines

Well that's a bummer. I need to get some night time!

Yup, why always try the shortcut? Just get what is required.

I don't understand all of the details, but trying to use the rules as they are established doesn't seem like a short cut. It seems that his question was more in clarification of the rules/regulations and wondering if he was applying them correctly to his situation. I'm sure not too many people on this forum can say that they clearly understand all of the FARs.

Since flight time is sooooo expensive, and EVERYONE'S advice on this forum is to get the training as cheaply as possible, being able to count some hours in a legal way seems appropriate.

It sounds like for him though he needs more night time.

USMCFLYR

I'm with USMC, I don't see any shortcut here. Contrary to the example I gave above, I'm at 1100TT and 65 Night. Everything else is roughly the same. It doesn't pertain to me yet, just a thought I had while I was comparing the minimums of each.

Being about 100 hours away from the 135 mins, If I can't build up my night time, I don't get the pay raise from the company. I don't think it's a shortcut... If the ATP offers a landing credit, I thought maybe the 135 mins did as well, maybe I was just missing it. It doesn't make sense to me that the ATP mins are actually EASIER to meet that the 135 IFR mins.

Seeing as how I'm not getting ANY night time at work this time of year, yes, I guess I AM looking for "easier" ways to meet the minimums.

35 hours x $100+ = ..... you get the idea...

i'm glad you asked the question. i am also short on the 135 night mins and had wondered the same thing. after searching through the regs several times i figured there was no way around it, but the question always lingered in the back of my mind. so thanks for asking!

Where are you based these days? In SJU or up in HYA?

Let scheduling know your need for the hours and I'm pretty sure they will be able to hook you up on whatever night flying is available. Is there still a late EIS turn from SJU? There's plenty of flying in the dark out of HYA - even on ACK Air I logged 3 night hours this week. If you can get late BOS-ACK legs you should get it quick enough.

You probably won't make your 100N by 1200TT, but if you can get an hour a day, it shouldn't be too much of a burden.

As far as buying time, I'd do the math for yourself, but I figure $3500 divided by a $3 raise, times 35 hours a week, equals about 33 weeks before you break even. So if you're getting about an hour of night flying a week, its a wash.

Oh yeah, one more thing, e-mail Bill Cush and find out how many hours of flight training you get for the upgrade ride. They schedule lots of that stuff at night, so you might be able to arrange to start your training when you have X night hours to go, expecting to get the balance while in training.