So a question came up at work the other day. Some one called in asking for spin training and an endorsement after the training is complete. I was wondering if we would need to have the the requirements of 61.195(h) to do the spin training and give the endorsement.

61.183(i)(1) says that the training needs to be given and endorsed by an authorized instructor. So an authorized must have 61.195(h) met then to do this?

Assuming you're talking about the 61.183 endorsement training for a CFI applicant, assuming that this is for the applicant's initial CFI certificate, yes, like all other required training for an initial CFI, the instructor who gives the spin endorsement must be a "senior" instructor meeting the requirements of 61.195(h).

(I said "assuming" since while your post suggests that's the endorsement you're talking about, it's possible that someone is coming to you asking for spin training that has nothing to do with becoming a CFI)

Just got a note from the secretary saying some one looking for spin training and is working on his CFI initial. I think it is weird that he is asking me for spin training and and not the otehr stuff. Then who is doing the rest of it.
I think it is just some random guy wanting to do spins

He might be doing his training with an instructor who is not comfortable doing spins, or maybe renting an airplane which is not allowed to spin due to insurance, FBO policy, etc.

Or maybe he just wants to do spins. It is actually legal for anyone to get spin training as long as it is agreed on that is towards a CFI rating. There was an FAA interpretation on this. You do not need to be enrolled in a formal CFI program, or even have a commercial cert. You just need the "intent" that you are, eventually, working towards a CFI rating. The guy's word is good enough.

You don't even need "intent" to become a CFI. Anyone can get spin training. Although it's not required, there are still many instructors in the US who provide spin training to their primary students.

Rick, are you thinking of the series of Chief Counsel interpretations dealing with whether a parachute is required or not under 91.307? Even then, "intent" isn't an issue, just the fact that spin training is a requirement for some certificate or rating:

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Regardless of what certificate or rating the applicant is seeking, an acrobatic maneuver required for any pilot certificate or rating (even one not presently sought by the applicant) may be performed without parachutes when done by, or at the direction of, a certificated flight instructor. 1977 FAA Chief Counsel Opinion
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The practical effect of that opinion has varied as the FAA has gone back and forth on spin training requirements from required for all to required for none to required only for CFI, with perhaps the most interesting variation being the 1986 FAA Chief Counsel opinion (when spin training wasn't required for anyone, even CFIs, but there was a requirement for training in dealing with common pilot errors)) that you needed parachutes for spin training but not to teach spin entry and recovery. Hey these guys are hardly perfect.


The only think that would be a little weird about the scenario is if the guy is =saying= that he's working on a CFI when he isn't.

It's really not that weird at all for a CFI candidate to look elsewhere for spin training. As Rick said, not all instructors are comfortable with spins. Many just do not teach or demonstrate them enough to feel that they've maintained a level of teaching proficiency to do the best job and the school is small enough that there's no "spin guy" there.

The school he his flying out of might have a policy against spinning their airplanes or may even have no spin-approved airplanes available.

There can be a lot of reasons for a CFI candidate to go elsewhere for the spin component of training.

If you are comfortable with giving spin training, I's at least call the guy back and talk to him. Not doing so is, well,
a bit weird

Yes, I was talking about the parachute requirement. That exemption is what allows CFI's to spin common training airplanes. Our FSDO did not want us spinning all comers, they asked that we only do those folks who were working on, or intended to acquire, a CFI rating (wink, wink). The headquarters interpretation appears even more lenient.

If you have parachutes, anybody can do all the spins they want, all day long.

I seem to recall something written by the FAA on the interpretation of this and that the instructor did not need to meet 61.195(h). If I remember right the reason was it is not a portion of the knowledge (61.185) or flight proficiency (61.187) which 61.195(h) was intended to apply to. I am not certain but does anyone here have more information, such as the FAA interpretation on this? Thank you.

It's actually a pretty common view that the 91.307 exception from parachutes for

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(2) Spins and other flight maneuvers required by the regulations for any certificate or rating when given by -
(i) A certificated flight instructor; or
(ii) An airline transport pilot instructing in accordance with § 61.67 of this chapter.
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means

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(2) Spins and other flight maneuvers required by the regulations for any certificate or rating when given by -
(i) A certificated flight instructor; or
(ii) An airline transport pilot instructing in accordance with § 61.67 of this chapter.
but only while going for or planning to go for that certificate or rating
==============================

but it doesn't.

Btw, you can find a more current statement of the same policy in AC 61-67C

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Because spin entry, spins, and spin recovery are required for a flight instructor certificate or rating, a person receiving instruction from a CFI (or an ATP instructing in accordance with section 61.167) need not wear an approved parachute while instruction is being provided in these maneuvers. This provision applies regardless of the certificate or rating for which the person is receiving training and also if the person is receiving instruction that is not being provided for the purpose of obtaining any additional certificate or rating. The instructor providing the training is also not required to wear an approved parachute while providing this flight training. (my emphasis)
==============================

Never mind about my question, I have been searching for the last couple hours with no luck. I guess I was wrong, still not sure so would love clarification but thanks either way.

I'd be kind of surprised of the FAA said that an endorsement for "instructional knowledge" related to spins was not part of the CFI requirements that required a "senior" CFI.