A friend of mine asked me if her friend (who forgot her medical certificate at home while on vacation) needs to have her medical certificate with her if she is renting an airplane from the company I work for, a flight school and aircraft rental facility. I told her of course she does. She needs her pilot certificate, her medical and a photo ID. with her whenever she acts as PIC of any aircraft. I'm a 2 year CFI. It goes without saying. BUT, being a man of detail, I looked it up, just to make sure where it actually SAYS you need your medical with you when you operate.

61.23 says, (a)(3) "Must hold at least a third-class medical certificate -
(i) when exercising the privileges of a private pilot certificate

BUT THEN IT GOES ON TO SAY,

(c) Operations requiring either a medical certificate or US. driver's license.
(1) A person must HOLD AND POSSESS either a valid medical certificate issued under Part 67 of this chapter or a current and valid US driver's license when exercising the privileges of

(i) a student pilot certificate while seeking sport pilot privileges.

(ii) etc.

(iii) etc.

So if 61.23 is thorough enough to include the requirement to not only hold, but also to "possess" your medical when operating under section 1, why wouldn't it also mention you must not only hold but "possess" you medical when operating under section (a)(3)(i), as a private pilot? Where's the part where is says I must both hold and "possess" my medical to exercise my privileges as private, or any other pilot for that mater.

It's frustrating when you can't find the actual verbatim of such a simple thing in these scatter-brained FAR/AIM books.

Thanks guys...and gals.

I don't have the regs handy, but you DEFINATELY need to have it with you, on your person.

A local inspector actually violated a female once because her ticket was in her purse in the airplane while she was doing an external preflight. She did not have it physically on her person...

That one was overturned on appeal, but it just goes to show they are very anal about actually having the things with you. Don't let her rent an airplane.

Actually she should be able to get a copy mailed from the FAA, not sure how long that would take though.

"Hold and possess" in 61.23 is just a bit of a redundancy. In both cases it just means have and doesn't deal with where it is kept.

The reg that say you need to have your medical and pilot certificate with you when you fly is 61.3.

Thanks gents. I'll read into 61.3 where I can tell it alone is a 2 page read. Thanks again.

"Hold" - be issued one.

"Possess" - have it in your hand for Ned the Fed.

Are those FAA definitions?

I have heard this an an urban myth for quite sometime now.
Do you actually know the person that was supposedly violated?

No. There's no need for those kinds of restrictive definitions in this area. You could as easily reverse those definitions.

If you look at 61.3 it's very specific. It uses the phrase "in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft."

People come up with all sorts of interesting things when they don't read the source material.

It was attributed to one of our local inspectors, who is quite legendary and has been around since before the wright brothers. Several of his stunts have achieved "urban myth" status. In this case I don't know for sure, but it is certainly well within this guy's operating envelope. Yes, I know him personally from GA days, and no I'm not going to name him.

Yeah. Looks pretty definitive. I guess we'll just have to live with the scatter-brainedness of the FAR's. Thanks for your help, Noy.