US Airways agrees with APA - Page 5 - Airline Pilot Central Forums

#41

formerdal , 04-23-2012 12:08 PM

Senior by choice

Quote:

Originally Posted by cactiboss

No. APA will take over and when it does it inherits all previous agreements including the Nic.

The list requires a JCBA between the East and West to be implemented, that has not and will not happen. I think there is a fair chance that the sli gets redone from scratch with all 3 groups. If there never was a JCBA it doesn't mean the NIC wasn't valid just never implemented and thus not usable.

#42

cactiboss , 04-23-2012 12:36 PM

Banned

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

The question of "inherit" will almost certainly be litigated as there is no prior law on this very unusual circumstance. Until it's adjudicated, probably best to stay clear of the predictions as to what will happen.

Carl

Ok here is what the company's lawyer, which btw is the most experienced rla attorney in the usa, has to say to federal court in phx. Look it up it's document 178 where the company asks for summary judgment:

Quote:
CONCLUSION
The Transition Agreement is binding on USAPA, both under ordinary principles of
contract law and under the status quo provisions of the RLA. That stated, USAPA can
propose amendments to the Transition Agreement, subject to its DFR to the West Pilots.
US Airways takes no position on the question whether USAPA would, or would not,
breach its DFR by insisting on (and entering into a CBA with US Airways containing) a
date-of-hire seniority list under the circumstances of this case. Instead, US Airways
respectfully requests that the Court resolve that issue by granting summary judgment in
favor of either the West Pilots Class or USAPA on either Count 1 or 2.

#43

cactiboss , 04-23-2012 12:41 PM

Banned

Quote:

Originally Posted by formerdal

The list requires a JCBA between the East and West to be implemented,

More accurately the list requires a single working agreement, think about what is going on right now and ask yourself if we will have a single working agreement before any sli with aa.

Quote:
that has not and will not happen.

So you believe that an sli will be done before a single contract? I wonder what amr pilots think about that

Quote:
I think there is a fair chance that the sli gets redone from scratch with all 3 groups. If there never was a JCBA it doesn't mean the NIC wasn't valid just never implemented and thus not usable.

So you believe usap will show up with 2 different lists, and that after all the case law that is in the books proving they were formed to get out of the Nic. and harm the west, they will represent the west list vs. the east list in front of the arbitrator. You are telling me that this will pass muster, that usapa will be representing the west list vs. the east list vs. the amr list?

#44

cactiboss , 04-23-2012 12:45 PM

Banned

Again read this and tell me what is the legal question:

So there is no question that usapa inherited and that the Nic. is the current SLI at usairways. The only legal question is if usapa can replace the EXISTING list with another that benefits the majority over the minority.

#45

cactiboss , 04-23-2012 01:42 PM

Banned

For Carl and Former DAL:

Usairways Doc. 178 Phoenix federal dist. usairways position

Quote:
The Transition Agreement here is not merely a tentative agreement. It is a fully-executed
CBA, signed by the airlines, the union, and the Master Executive Councils which
separately represented the East Pilots and the West Pilots. (See Doc. No. 156-3 at 40-41.)
Upon execution of the Transition Agreement, the parties (including ALPA at first and
then USAPA) treated it as a binding contract: they acted in accordance with the Transition
Agreement’s terms by, inter alia, adjudicating grievances regarding its interpretation and
application pursuant to its dispute-resolution procedures. (See Doc. No. 164 at 9:13-25.)
The fact that the Nicolau Award has not yet been implemented does not change the fact
that the Transition Agreement contains a commitment to the Nicolau Award, and such
contractual commitment is therefore part of the status quo.4

Any comments on this?

#46

Carl Spackler , 04-23-2012 01:56 PM

Back on TDY

Cactiboss,

There is a considerable legal distinction between the pleadings and declarations of fact by the lawyers of one side, and a court's decision.

Carl

#47

cactiboss , 04-23-2012 02:02 PM

Banned

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Cactiboss,

There is a considerable legal distinction between the pleadings and declarations of fact by the lawyers of one side, and a court's decision.

Carl

No doubt, but wouldn't you agree that this document serves to educate on what is actually going on? You now have the leading rla attorney having a differing opinion than you do, should we just dismiss what he says or take it in and compare it with what usapa says so we can make an educated decision? So Carl, what is your opinion of what usairways attorney's claim?

#48

crzipilot , 04-23-2012 02:32 PM

Gets Weekends Off

So I guess your saying it only matters what this 1 attorney's opinion is? Doesn't really matter what the judge has to say? Let's get all the RLA attorneys rounded up and get their opinion and see how it goes.....

Single agreement before any SLI?! maybe, maybe not? Has US management put something on the table for the US pilots? Nope didn't think so.

Could it possibly ring true, that APA is looking at all options and finding what is best for THEIR group (as you are doing advocating the NIC for your group) DOH may not work for APA NIC may not work for APA, they may look at it and say, this 3 list thing works more so in our favor than any of those options.....

So APA puts together a proposed SLI, ties it with that 30% pay raise and puts it on the table and says. here ya go, vote it in or be a 3 individual pilot contracts.

What would you do? Have LEO file more lawsuits?

#49

cactiboss , 04-23-2012 03:48 PM

Banned

Quote:

Originally Posted by crzipilot

Yeah all that is possible, you can draw your own conclusions, the fact that both the west and the company agree might mean nothing to you and that is fine. The apa is free to do as you suggest which would mean getting legally involved in the case and becoming liable, and yes we will sue if anything but the nic is used

#50

crzipilot , 04-23-2012 04:45 PM

Gets Weekends Off

So on record your willing to throw away an improved contract and superior pay when compared to ANY pay scale the west has ever seen?

And that's because you know the West list is younger, and will prevail in their windfall seats for a longer period of time then the east or the AA group? I have a feeling that's why at every new twist in this history, the west guys become so frantic about the Nic.....

And though you threaten the law suit etc.... I do believe, either way, as it's understood, that there must be a list actually voted in before you can file. Sometime called ripeness?