1. Does Usapa want a merger to go through?
2. If they do what list would they use as a starting point for the SLI?
3. If Usapa didn’t want the merger to go through would they have the ability to block it if the APA, UCC, and DP all want it?
4. Does DP have the authority to use the Nic list if Usapa is against it?
5. Could the west pilots block it if DP tries to negotiate a DOH list with the Usapa?

Thx

10 pages...

I promise I will not say a word to cacti on this thread.

One east guys opinion. Disclaimer: I hold no office in USAPA.

1. Yes.
2. They would like to use their DOH proposal.
3. I doubt it.
4. Don't know, but usually the company does not forward the seniority list, the union does. Nothing usual about our messthough.
5. Don't know, but confident they will try.

Really dangerous question, but what the heck. What seniority list would AA pilots like to see US pilots start with, if you care one way or another? I've had two answers. The first was that the Nicolau award should be used because that was what a fair process produced. The second was that they would want DOH list used because, in general, that would have the US pilots that ended up being senior being the older one, hence the leave sooner.

I'm sure APA legal counsel will make the appropriate recommendation to keep them from future economic liabilities if you catch my drift.

I had a USAir captain jumpseater onboard, showing us pictures of properties he was considering buying at the other guys' major domicile...just waiting for the merger to happen, but you could see all the chickens had been counted while still in their shells. This was 2000, I was an FE at the time, and he was looking at Denver.

They haven't changed.

Really? I had an AWA pilot do the exact same thing on the jumpseat from PHX to CLT years back. Did your guy ask where he could get his 747 manuals too? That seemed to really knock you guys for a loop. I had a UA pilot tell me that I could have never been hired at UA and would always be "acquired". Had another UA, CAPTAIN BY GOD, whine because I gave the freight guy that was there first the jumpseat. CAPTAIN MARV said he deserved it more. What does all of this tell us? There are tools at every airline.

Congrats on your contract and for CO guys, good luck on your SLI, as you will never be seen as worthy as the Marvin Mainliners. I think it is time for me to head on over to the UA/CO board and spread a little holiday cheer.

I'm not sure what you got out of what I said; I'm an AA guy. Now that I think of it, it was probably 2001. Pre- 9/11 for sure. And I'm not saying any carrier corners the market on pilot boneheads. That would be boneheaded of me. That encounter has just stuck with me over the years as a textbook example of chicken-counting gone amok.

From a West guy

1. Yes

2. USAPA wants their own list used. DOH or bust!

3. No. USAPA is powerless to do anything but whine about how unfair everything is because they are all future legacy widebody captains.

4. Yes. Here is where it gets tricky. As R57 says, the union proposes the list. But USAPA has no single list of a combined pilot group to propose other than the Nicolau award. Their DOH list has not been made part of a joint contract. We are years away from a TA. Parker has accepted the Nic list, that was done years ago. But it, too, has never been put into a joint contract. We may face a 3 way, but that has its own legal challenges.

5. No. We are a minority in a future minority. We do have the threat of a DFR against anyone who uses a list that does not resemble the Nicolau award but that will not block the merger. So it all depends on whether you believe that the threat of a suit against the company or the union will influence events. The company has been told by the courts that they will also be held liable in a DFR suit. Also, Parker holds no respect for USAPA. He sees them as toothless lions.
Parker will do whatever is expedient for him to get the merger done.

The bottom line is, we have no idea how this will turn out. If this deal goes through, we will all be APA members within about 60 days. Under the term sheets from before seniority will go to binding arbitration if the parties can't agree. And binding will be binding this time because it will have the force of federal law and not contract law behind it.