Can you please share what you mean by that? Serious question, I am not baiting you, I just have no idea what swapa has to do with pensions getting destroyed by BK.

Yeah I'm a little fuzzy on that too... Those companies underfunded the 'A' funds, the PBGC took what was left and divvied it up depending upon how much time before retirement was left to recover . Has nothing to do with SWAPA.

Well, SWA was making serious inroads into the post deregulation markets. They used the smartly held fuel hedges to beat the majors into submission.

There is no doubt that the "market" for airline labor was sans pension when the airlines went into BK court.

Delta had a well funded A plan going into 2000's, infact they asked to put more money into the A fund, but the government said no, stock market is up and we want corporate taxes on your profits so pay up.

Once into BK court, labor had no choice but to capitulate to the "market", that meant no pensions, no retiree medical, but hey at least there was profit sharing....

SWAPA will see the same lesson going forward, ALG and Frontier will show mgmt there are plenty of people willing to work harder for less money and that will be the drag on SWAPA's next contract infinitum.

Thinking that SWA is exempt from competitors labor markets today is as foolish as the major airline pilots thinking they were exempt from the new normal that SWAPA had established in the 90's.

That's what I meant, and I'm not baiting either. SWA has run a tight ship with good mgmt for many years.

Wish us all success.

Well not exactly, what took place is the underfunded plans (after a serious stock market downturn in 01 coupled with a provision allowing retirees to take half of their future annuity value up front as a lump sum payout) were turned over to PBGC.
PBGC pays out according to a govt edict on how much of a pension they will insure. If the future payouts exceed the funds turned over, then the govt will be on the hook. Under the PBGC rules the payouts are significantly lower than what the companies plans called for.

None of that had to do with SWAPA except that their contract and lack of retirement was going to be the new normal either by agreement or thru a BK court.

It's alright though, it is what it is at this point. My whole argument is that if y'all are telling potential new hires that, hey were different, we never furloughed, all I would say is that is what they said at Delta in 1990 as well.

Don't wish demise to any group, but at the end of the day, our labor is only as valuable as what it takes to get a new hire to join up.

If we cede our international operations to foreign carriers we will eventually all become regional pilots in the corporations eyes.

If you don't think that ALG, NK and Frontier are challenging SWA, wait until our government declares cabotage legal and see what that will do to the pilot labor market in the long term.

Latest hiring numbers. 2015 now at 335 pilots. 500-600 for next year.


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That's a good thing!

Actually, you can thank Herb for that. He's on record saying he'd never entertain a pension of any kind due to the "shackles" it puts on a corporation. Believe he used those exact words long before any of the majors went through the bankruptcy car wash and screwed over their pilots.

Honestly, all of this sounds like revisionist history. ALPA caved to the market due to their inadequacies and due to the bankruptcy courts, not because one LCC had lucrative 401k matching and profit sharing instead of a pension.

Better thank the regionals and the fractional outfits for their help while you're at it.

I consider SWA as one of the Big Four, and as I said before, any or all of the big four could be in drastically different financial positions during that time frame. I firmly believe SWA could be in a drastically different financial position up to and including bankruptcy or insolvency. You are only seeing what you want to see.

I don't know about hiring...but they knocked over a catering truck today...and a light pole a few years back. Take it easy in Denver guys. WOW.

Fairly accurate synopsis with a one important caveat:

SWA did furlough. SWAPA stopped it before it was enacted. An illegitimate victory that SWA trumpets to this day however.