Sun,
You said it all to me with trying to get it off your chest over the Internet. None of us can affect this outcome. None of us are on the SLI team. If we stopped with all the stupid keyboard warrior stuff and seeing who can beat up who maybe we could have better discussions, form unity and relax while the chips fall where they may. My intent when I post is to avoid the angst and just help each other out. The world is small and both our worlds will be getting smaller soon and I want to enjoy flying with each other and make this company better since senior mgmt can't right now.

Sunvox,
My take as to "whose fault", for what it's worth.
Prior to 1984 or so (I might be off a year or 2), it wasn't allowed for one airline to pretend to be another in the booking/res systems. (a few commuters flew as "Allegheny Commuter", but did not have full booking in the res system, they were still listed as their own airline).
Then as part of the whole "get regulations off our backs" philosophy it was decided that JoeAirline could pretend to be BobAirline. A profound change in regulatory philosophy.American immediately signed up Simmons Airlines to be
American Eagle
in the res system. United signed up Air Wisconsin (the original Air Wisc, not the one flying today) complete with their 100 seat Bae 146's. And the rest is history.
As usual the decisions to make the regulatory environment more business friendly has had a huge impact on the people who work for these businesses. What has ensued is Unions trying to keep airline mgmts from outsourcing every flying job to a lower bidder, then outsourcing them to an even lower bidder, etc. Some MEC's have had more success than some others, but it all stems from changes made in how the game is played.
Mgmt is merely doing what is to be expected in a free market system. Unions (ie us) are just trying to mitigate the damage to our livelihoods. As long as supply exceeds demand(in regards pilot numbers) and we have a preponderance of anti labor judges(for the various legal challenges) the advantage rests with the mgmt side.
As said, just my take, for what it's worth.

(they only call it class warfare when we fight back)

The basis of your summation is correct. Management jumped in to take advantage of the changes that came with deregulation while ALPA continued down its same old path, changing nothing in its approach while management was forging ahead in the world of deregulation. Today ALPA still talks like it is 1933 instead of 2013. The current issue of their magazine still extols the power of pattern bargaining, what a joke. The basic organization of ALPA is obsolete. Pilots representation based on their individual airlines plays directly into the hands of airline management. Airline Pilots ASSOCIATION, is exactly what ALPA is, an association and not a UNION. Until pilots wake up and get back to the basics of what and how a UNION works the airline pilot profession is doomed to accept whatever crumbs management is willing to dish out. In a real union all pilots would work for the same wages, benefits and working conditions. At a time when even our worthless FAA is being forced to review pilot certification, where is ALPA and why haven't pilots insisted that they have a determining roll in who and how someone is certified to become a member of our profession just as doctors and lawyers do in determining what it takes to enter their profession. When ALPA was formed they had a relatively good relationship with the government and there was the Civil Aeronautics Board that acted much of the time in support of ALPA to advance the airline pilot profession. The CAB went away with deregulation yet ALPA has done nothing in over three decades to adapt to that change and the results can clearly be seen in the death spiral our profession continues to endure. ALPA continues to act like our profession is respected and supported by politicians and bureaucrats in Washington, while airline management with their big contributions use everything from the bankruptcy courts to the RLA to ensure pilots never again achieve the level of respect and compensation they enjoyed prior to 1978. Very sad.

Sunvox ... breath in breath out and move on. I'm not CAL ... I'm UAL. I don't need to read the history ... I've experienced it first hand. You go read the increased scope that the UAL pilots bought into for more coin in their pocket in C2000! I voted against that contract as well because of the scope waivers. It was great money but I couldn't stomach the scope waivers. Now ... in the words of Jimmey Buffett ... "breath in .. breath out ... move on!" You started this thread ... if you can't stand the heat of the truth ... move on.

Thank-you! I couldn't agree more!







Read it and stand by my comment.


How many 50 seat RJ's did CAL have in 2003? How many did DAL have in 2003? How many did UAL have in 2003? Riddle me that then tell me whose playing "holier than Thou". Remember this is all about history, and how we got where we are . . .






Hey now that's funny 'cuz that's the same line you used with me 6 months ago. I notice, however, that as before when you used that line you prefer to argue based on personalities rather than expound on logic.