Premise:

1) Without the ALPA forum, many Delta pilots do not have a place to debate/exchange info. I just spoke to a friend (normal, average line dog) who had been coming here for news, up until the point it became 20 guys yelling at each other. He hears that average guys like him are now turned off by APC.

2) Many posts here are philosophically driven, and are designed to discredit one group or another, or a poster or another. The posters involved seem to have an infinite amount of time.

3) The contract survey comes with a finite amount of time. For whatever reason, which I'm not sure it's worth speculating on, the reps have either abdicated their responsibility, or gone fully democratic, and the future is in our hands. We actually have in the survey a tool that can reinforce our future contracts, or weaken them considerably. All parties seem to agree that participation is critical.



In light of this, would anyone be interested in participating in a new thread, that deals specifically with the details of the survey, and makes arguments over answers, and over the best outcome for the Delta pilot group?

Covered:

a) Specific discussions on specific answers, with pro/con arguments.
b) Discussions about the interaction of various potential changes, i.e. how one question affects another, or how a set of concessions might affect staffing, or QOL, or finances, etc.
c) General recommendations for filling out the survey, i.e. reminding people to save, etc.

Out-of-bounds would be anything else, especially:
a) Anything to do with CBA's, i.e. who sucks, who's great, and Moak.
b) Anything that attacks another poster.
c) Anything not related to the substance of a question.

Any takers, under these conditions? No need to debate: if you agree with the concept, join in with an item. If you disagree, there are already threads for that.

Or, better yet, maybe the mods can set up a DAL survey sub-forum, and we can put up individual survey questions as threads, eah with a poll, and pro-con arguments?

Or create your own website for delta specific news where people have to post a name instead of an alias to hide behind.
You are asking for something that won't happen on a public forum.

Compensation -

Our rates are currently 34% below the 2004 (C2K) rates adjusted for inflation. A 34% cut requires a 51% increase to fully restore.

Given the current profitability of our company, the outlook for future profitability of our company, the restructuring that has taken place in our industry (which should result in less extreme profit cycles), and the relatively small part pilot costs play in the overall scheme of things... I think it's more than reasonable to restore our buying power over a 3 year period.

I would propose a 25-10-10 increase to our rates. Or I would also accept some other combination of rate increases and work rules resulting in a 25-10-10 increase to our W2's.

Keep in mind that I'm not suggesting we be repaid for the 10 years of major concessions we've already contributed to Delta's recovery from its financial crisis. I'm only suggesting that our compensation should be made right going forward. Again, I think this is more than reasonable and actually quite generous on our part.

Within the confines of the structure of the survey, that is basically what I put. Is that the sort of thing you're looking for with this thread?

Just curious, does anyone ever study history?

88,

What if we kept it shorter, and more tied to the survey? I bet we could distill that to a couple of sentences.

I didn't see any question asking what our rates should be over the next few years. #24-26 ask what our initial rate increase should be on time, a year late, or two years late. I figured 6% was a reasonable penalty for each year late, so I stepped the answer to #25 and 26 6% each. The only other answer on total cost increase was at the end of the survey. I used 35%.

How did you tell them how you wanted the pay structured over 4 years? I don't mean to debate what you want... I mean what question did you use?

Scope. JV Shorten look back to 6 months and no cure period. 10% pay raise for all if out of compliance and no profit loss sharing during out of compliance period. A little harsh, but certainly no harsher than bending over and the company taking their sweet time with us.

V Atlantic - similar to JV wrt production balance, look back and cure.

[....Filler]

I only saw two ways to discuss JV's: #12, which is a ranking question, and #17, on future JV's. I ranked JV's below Alter Ego, Subcontracting, and Foreign Ownership, and answered A to #17.

Let's say a bunch of guys free-text "10% penalty in lieu of a cure"... 10% against large-gauge Scope? I suspect they'd gladly take the deal.

25-10-10 is structured over 3 years, not 4. There was no way to be as specific as I was in my post. So maybe my post isn't the sort of thing you're looking for on this thread. If so, I'll bow out.

To answer your question, what I did on the survey was indicated a minimum 25% increase on day one and a minimum total increase of 51%. 25-10-10 is cumulatively 51%, but as you said there was no way for me to be that specific on the survey. I don't remember the exact question numbers or the exact wording of the questions.

Oh I agree if you free text 10%, that's a bonus for the JV. The meat is in taking way the ability to have the JV.