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Originally Posted by Check Complete
(Post 2687030)
Absolute NO vote.
Why? This entire package is postured to bringing people here at the true expense of those here longer than 6 or so years. First of all is the signing bonus of 40 Grand and the potential of the same person getting an additional 20 Grand reimbursement for their flight training. Every dollar given to people not even here has to come from somewhere, as a result your bonuses will be reduced. (another reason they will not hard fix the hourly scales) I seem to recall all the years where all they could spend was 1 percent, that's it! Now all of a sudden we are flush with cash but still will not spend it on those here, especially the ones with 15 or more years. Don't kid yourself, this package doesn't even keep up with the Cost Of Living projected increases. So there's one NO reason. The 87 hours for 130% garbage, this is entangled with so many hoops to get through it is amazing! And you know the company didn't see right through this to build lines with less hours. Remember this 87 hour value has to be in PBS, it's the only way you'll get it. You can't trade up or pick up and get it. And as soon as the lines start getting close to 87 hours they will just turn reserves into line holders and dilute the value to less. The company isn't stupid and now there will be less reserves if you want a day off (ha). If you are not aware how easily the company can manipulate and sway PBS, wake up. Ask the No. 1 in your domicile how they don't get what they bid for: Company Need, in this case lines with less than 87 hours. Another NO. Strategic planning. For the pilots, should we finally get our act together and unionize, the company could sit on this TA for years before they decided to talk. With this package, the company has all they need for at least 5 years, maybe 10. If we vote this down and then vote in a union the company will need to get a contract out quickly. Now we would have an opportunity to get industry leading pay scales AND livable work rules! The company didn't come back to the table early because of good will (those days are long gone), they came back because they had too. They have to have what the other airlines offer to new hires. Why shouldn't those already here get the same thing? I understand it would quickly help some new FO's but think past today or even tomorrow, think 2 or 3 or 4 years from now. Another big NO. Now don't get me started on the Credit or better vs. Block or better garbage. We deserve more, we deserve better. |
Two-year FO, solid “no” vote. I enjoy my job and love having the opportunity to work for this company but I’m tired of these low-ball games they are playing pretending to empathize and then sending out e-mails that are out of touch with reality and completely insulting to everyone’s intelligence. If you want the best regional labor force it’s going to cost money and you’re going to have to make large compromises. It’s not cheap but it is worth the cost.
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Originally Posted by amcnd
(Post 2687122)
More reason to go to a Major.... better benefits, travel, vac, sick, postive space passes, ect. Come to grips we work for a subcontractor... im still a yes. But im out of here anyway... for the reasons listed above. Not having to worry about who’s going to take who’s flying...and getting a schedule and life style that fits my family...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-fedex-pilot-shortage/ahead-of-holidays-fedex-leans-on-special-bonuses-to-keep-pilots-from-retiring-idUSKCN1ME0C8 |
Now you're quoting yourself, interesting....
Originally Posted by amcnd
(Post 2687179)
Shows you the difference between a regional subcontractor and a Major.. lets get real. Only way to say “No” is to move on... thats the only thing that will get to SGU... when attrition is 100+ a month even after we vote yes for this TA..
The company only cares about the new hires and the ones not even here, they have come out and said it publicly. That is why this TA is like it is. It blatantly shows it only cares about the ones not yet here. They only care about those coming here not the ones leaving! We got more the last time we voted no, why not this time? |
Originally Posted by Timmay
(Post 2686285)
I had Jon Graff as a new-hire too.
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Originally Posted by Check Complete
(Post 2687030)
Absolute NO vote.
Why? This entire package is postured to bringing people here at the true expense of those here longer than 6 or so years. First of all is the signing bonus of 40 Grand and the potential of the same person getting an additional 20 Grand reimbursement for their flight training. Every dollar given to people not even here has to come from somewhere, as a result your bonuses will be reduced. (another reason they will not hard fix the hourly scales) I seem to recall all the years where all they could spend was 1 percent, that's it! Now all of a sudden we are flush with cash but still will not spend it on those here, especially the ones with 15 or more years. Don't kid yourself, this package doesn't even keep up with the Cost Of Living projected increases. So there's one NO reason. The 87 hours for 130% garbage, this is entangled with so many hoops to get through it is amazing! And you know the company didn't see right through this to build lines with less hours. Remember this 87 hour value has to be in PBS, it's the only way you'll get it. You can't trade up or pick up and get it. And as soon as the lines start getting close to 87 hours they will just turn reserves into line holders and dilute the value to less. The company isn't stupid and now there will be less reserves if you want a day off (ha). If you are not aware how easily the company can manipulate and sway PBS, wake up. Ask the No. 1 in your domicile how they don't get what they bid for: Company Need, in this case lines with less than 87 hours. Another NO. Strategic planning. For the pilots, should we finally get our act together and unionize, the company could sit on this TA for years before they decided to talk. With this package, the company has all they need for at least 5 years, maybe 10. If we vote this down and then vote in a union the company will need to get a contract out quickly. Now we would have an opportunity to get industry leading pay scales AND livable work rules! The company didn't come back to the table early because of good will (those days are long gone), they came back because they had too. They have to have what the other airlines offer to new hires. Why shouldn't those already here get the same thing? I understand it would quickly help some new FO's but think past today or even tomorrow, think 2 or 3 or 4 years from now. Another big NO. Now don't get me started on the Credit or better vs. Block or better garbage. We deserve more, we deserve better. Bravo, well stated! |
Voting now open!
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Well the emails were certainly disappointing.
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Originally Posted by amcnd
(Post 2686027)
If you read what TT posted or what Sapa says. This isnt QOL. That’s negotiated separately. This is a “pay” proposal.. they fixed the major issues from last time. Im a yes.
Then yes. Lets get going on parking, hotels, ect... If this gets approved, they have 0 incentive to give anything more. And rightfully so, why would they? As long as new FO's are coming in the door, what incentive would they have to spend more money on us? I do think the TA is a pretty good one, although I also want to see BOB. Better rates on User and Vacation time would also be good. |
Originally Posted by trip
(Post 2689607)
Well the emails were certainly disappointing.
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Not industry leading emails.
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Originally Posted by domino
(Post 2689665)
Vote yes. Recession imminent. Next package will be real concessions.
<3 |
Originally Posted by jpso
(Post 2689584)
Voting now open!
A yup vote from me. A good pay increase and keeps the company in the game. |
Originally Posted by TheFly
(Post 2689692)
A yup vote from me.
A good pay increase and keeps the company in the game. Installing Kool-aid tap dispensers in all airplanes! :D |
Originally Posted by sn00p
(Post 2689702)
Did y’all hear about the new FOIB?
Installing Kool-aid tap dispensers in all airplanes! :D |
Originally Posted by TheFly
(Post 2689712)
Ever heard of cutting your nose off to spite your face? :rolleyes:
It’s okaaaaaay to poke jokes!:D <3 |
Clickclickboom is back
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Yes.. its fair for a “regional”. Could we get more. Maybe, but were already only 1 year into a 5 year deal. Im happy they desided to open it back up 4 years early. And are only asking for 6 months added to the agreement.. i want to see SkyWest be able to grow, and be attractive for people to come here..
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Originally Posted by amcnd
(Post 2689736)
Yes.. its fair for a “regional”. Could we get more. Maybe, but were already only 1 year into a 5 year deal. Im happy they desided to open it back up 4 years early. And are only asking for 6 months added to the agreement.. i want to see SkyWest be able to grow, and be attractive for people to come here..
Why care about SkyWest being able to grow if you're leaving? PS: I guarantee they could grow if we had actually had pay and quality of life that was "industry leading" as claimed. If they had actual rates without including bonuses above those of Republic and Endeavor, along with top vacation/user accrual(instead of bottom of the barrel), new hires would be lined up to get in class as the word got out. |
Originally Posted by Paid2fly
(Post 2689875)
Why care about SkyWest being able to grow if you're leaving?
PS: I guarantee they could grow if we had actually had pay and quality of life that was "industry leading" as claimed. If they had actual rates without including bonuses above those of Republic and Endeavor, along with top vacation/user accrual(instead of bottom of the barrel), new hires would be lined up to get in class as the word got out. |
I’m thinking there’s a recession soon around the corner so this is probably the last decent offer we will get. Yes vote for me.
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Originally Posted by N1CEandEZ
(Post 2689912)
I’m thinking there’s a recession soon around the corner so this is probably the last decent offer we will get. Yes vote for me.
Yes. We are overdue for an economic pull back. I think stock market indications this week show it's coming up. I'm not messing around with "let's vote no and wait another six months" nonsense. |
But list growth. We need more pilots 5000 total and maybe we would be at a sweet spot for scheduling and trades/drops.. You leaving for a union carrier? Just curious? |
Originally Posted by amcnd
(Post 2689901)
By “grow” im not talkig more aircraft.. that could be part of it. But list growth. We need more pilots 5000 total and maybe we would be at a sweet spot for scheduling and trades/drops.. grow as in profits, that in return get us bigger bonuses... leaving has nothing to do with that. Rather hand the touch off lit then burnt out or on fire..
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Originally Posted by amcnd
(Post 2689901)
By “grow” im not talkig more aircraft.. that could be part of it. But list growth. We need more pilots 5000 total and maybe we would be at a sweet spot for scheduling and trades/drops.. grow as in profits, that in return get us bigger bonuses... leaving has nothing to do with that. Rather hand the touch off lit then burnt out or on fire..
If we grow to 5000 pilots, we will simply pick up more flying to keep the same thin margin. QOL lacking, I’m a no. |
No vote
3 for 3 voting No.
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No QOL improvments would benefit me. In base and do CDOs. 11% immediate raise and my bonuses stay in tact. Which was what was lacking from the last one. I voted Yes.
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Originally Posted by amcnd
(Post 2686027)
If you read what TT posted or what Sapa says. This isnt QOL. That’s negotiated separately. This is a “pay” proposal.. they fixed the major issues from last time. Im a yes.
Then yes. Lets get going on parking, hotels, ect... This is exactly what the endeavor mec said to us just vote yes because the pay is right and we can fix the other issues later in different LOA’s and it’s been radio silence ever since on a lot of key issues that people really need addressed to impove QOL and keep more of that money that they gave us in the raises in our pockets. I’m just an outsider and take my opinion for what you see it’s worth but your out nothing by waiting and trying to solve some more key issues you have. |
Originally Posted by amcnd
(Post 2686027)
If you read what TT posted or what Sapa says. This isnt QOL. That’s negotiated separately. This is a “pay” proposal.. they fixed the major issues from last time. Im a yes.
Then yes. Lets get going on parking, hotels, ect... This is exactly what the endeavor mec said to us just vote yes because the pay is right and we can fix the other issues later in different LOA’s and it’s been radio silence ever since on a lot of key issues that people really need addressed to impove QOL and keep more of that money that they gave us in the raises in our pockets. I’m just an outsider and take my opinion for what you see it’s worth but your out nothing by waiting and trying to solve some more key issues you have. |
I'm pretty sure it's going to pass, simply because with the previous offer, not a single person admitted to voting Yes. And I haven't seen a single "VOTE NYET" written on the TOLD cards, ACARS printouts, for the next crew to discover...
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I’m not in the system yet. How long before we know the result?
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Originally Posted by DeltaCorrectons
(Post 2690415)
This is exactly what the endeavor mec said to us just vote yes because the pay is right and we can fix the other issues later in different LOA’s and it’s been radio silence ever since on a lot of key issues that people really need addressed to impove QOL and keep more of that money that they gave us in the raises in our pockets. I’m just an outsider and take my opinion for what you see it’s worth but your out nothing by waiting and trying to solve some more key issues you have.
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Originally Posted by Flying Spike
(Post 2690439)
I’m not in the system yet. How long before we know the result?
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Originally Posted by zondaracer
(Post 2690538)
Vote closes on the 17th. Results shortly after. New pay goes into effect 1 Nov if the outcome is yes.
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I personally can’t understand the people who are topped out on the pay scale being so against it on the account of inflation.
It is like they don’t really understand that a 20 year scale stops at 20 years. I would jump at the 3% bump offered. I also have a hard time understanding the FOs voting no to 30% raise. We are in a bubble. |
Originally Posted by WesternSkies
(Post 2691241)
I personally can’t understand the people who are topped out on the pay scale being so against it on the account of inflation.
It is like they don’t really understand that a 20 year scale stops at 20 years. I would jump at the 3% bump offered. I also have a hard time understanding the FOs voting no to 30% raise. We are in a bubble. Do you think the 1.5% in 2020 and the 1% in 2021 and 2022, will keep up with inflation. Do you even know what inflation has run over the past decade or two, or what the Fed target is? I believe our top 50 seat rate at the end of 2001 was $92 an hour. Do you have any idea what you would need to make now to have the same purchasing power? $131 an hour. I'd happily accept a pay package tied to the government reported inflation rate. It runs 2% a year. In four years when this pay package expires someone topped out will have less purchasing power than they have today. And for those topped out it's not even a 3% increase. Less than 2 1/2. Not that you give a **** about any of that, or can probably understand it. |
Originally Posted by WesternSkies
(Post 2691241)
I personally can’t understand the people who are topped out on the pay scale being so against it on the account of inflation.
It is like they don’t really understand that a 20 year scale stops at 20 years. I would jump at the 3% bump offered. I also have a hard time understanding the FOs voting no to 30% raise. We are in a bubble. For the sake of all of mankind, please don't have a family...... |
Originally Posted by Utah
(Post 2691271)
I don't think you have any idea how inflation works.
Do you think the 1.5% in 2020 and the 1% in 2021 and 2022, will keep up with inflation. Do you even know what inflation has run over the past decade or two, or what the Fed target is? I believe our top 50 seat rate at the end of 2001 was $92 an hour. Do you have any idea what you would need to make now to have the same purchasing power? $131 an hour. I'd happily accept a pay package tied to the government reported inflation rate. It runs 2% a year. In four years when this pay package expires someone topped out will have less purchasing power than they have today. And for those topped out it's not even a 3% increase. Less than 2 1/2. Not that you give a **** about any of that, or can probably understand it. So now that I’ve gotten you angry and your math is wrong, what did you think was going to happen in regard to inflation when you got to year 21 on a 20 year pay scale as you spent those two decades climbing it? You wanna talk smarts? Did you have these current bonuses, work rules, qol & 401k in 2001? Total comp for a 20 year guy is on pace with YOUR provided numbers. Haha |
Only an idiot would compare our current rates with the proposed rates and not take into account the pay rates that would/will happen on Jan 1 2019. The difference is less than $3 an hour from what we are already scheduled to get for someone topped out in either aircraft.
You really think the annual step increase is suppose to account for inflation. Wrong. Why do you think all of the other airlines get 3% a year or so on January 1st. |
Originally Posted by WesternSkies
(Post 2691241)
I personally can’t understand the people who are topped out on the pay scale being so against it on the account of inflation.
It is like they don’t really understand that a 20 year scale stops at 20 years. I would jump at the 3% bump offered. I also have a hard time understanding the FOs voting no to 30% raise. We are in a bubble. |
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