Skywest or Envoy?
 

First time regional pilot, offers from both, desire to be based in TX asap. Beyond that not much preference.

Pros / Cons of each?


Thank you.

Do you have any friends at Envoy that can tell you how many pilots have been terminated there?

I am as well Texas based. I went to SkyWest bc didn’t wanna commute to reserve for LGA. I heard some guys fly 300 hours there first year at Envoy


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Decent chance of being Texas based at Envoy lately, depends on when your class would be.
New hires haven’t gotten LGA in a while, lately 175/145 with ORD/DFW choice. Depends on how old you are too though, If low 20s can get stuck on the CRJ in ORD IF there are CRJ slots in the class - which happened exactly once since April of 2018.

Thanks - i'm 43.
Envoy has early Feb class, Skywest has April class.

You should have a good chance of picking what you want at Envoy.
See how the three January classes play out - that's not a guarantee of how the February will go, but still.
Either way, plenty of time to get opinions and compare the two. If you do go to Skywest, I'd recommend giving Envoy a polite heads up vs noshowing to the class (and same the other way around)

Appreciate the replies - i know these "xx vs. xy" are irritating, unanswerable questions. It kinda seems like these two are pretty comparable from a newb perspective, esp if flying 175 out of DFW for both.

I will tell you that a buddy of mine went to envoy last year and spent 6 months at ORD and barely got any hours...
So he went to the DFW base to be closer to home for/shorter commute.
He got even less hours at DFW...
So now he's commuting all the way to LGA just to get hours because it was going to take him a few years to even get close to an upgrade.

I can't speak to the OO DFW schedule, but my buddy told me not to go to envoy if i wanted to be based in TX.

Take it with a grain of salt.

Skywest pays about $16/hr more as a NH than a Envoy does as a Maxed out FO. Flow is so long at all the AA WOs currently it shouldn’t even be a consideration for most. You’ll be working for lower wages until between 50 and 55 at the earliest if you wait to flow.

Are you trying for the 175 or crj? I am surprised to hear soonest class is April for Skywest. If you want DFW at Skywest do the crj

go with the flow. do not go to skw. you will get in put in LGA as a new hire. how does that sound?

if you have the option to flow but as well still apply to other places the choice is simple.

You will also likely end up in LGA at Envoy. However if you take the CRJ at SkyWest you have way more options.

"likely"? No you won't.
When was the last time a NH got LGA at Envoy? June?

Depends on aircraft. LGA isn't a CRJ base and 175 guys can get ORD within their first month or two on-line.

But yes, the flow is something to consider. Especially if you're dead set on going to AA.

I'm not deadset on AA at all - i'm deadset on a TX base.

I was thinking the 175 was the way to go for DFW.

You know AA is always going to have TX operations.

SKW has been in and out of TX half a dozen times and always chases the buck, just depends which way the wind is blowing?

You'll get a TX base at either airline, but like Check Complete said, OO has always been in and out of TX. I don't foresee OO leaving any time soon since they just inked the DFW flying a few months ago but anything is possible.

It's also worth comparing Envoy's contract to SkyWest's pay agreement. The little things like reserve rules, duty/trip rigs, incentive pay, 401k match, profit sharing, etc. add up and will make a difference.

Is there a place to reliably get that info about both to compare besides their recruiting brochures?

If you can find someone at Envoy to send you a PDF of their CBA and find a copy of SkyWest's Pilot Policy Manual (PPM) to page through, that's the best way to do it.

Hmm...who left this here?;)

Better then that ask for trip sheets/ bid packs. My sked at SkyWest has been way better then my Schedule was when i was at Envoy..

Happens all the time unless you’re lucky enough to snag a 175 slot.

Better in what way?

Oh come on :rolleyes: . Last new hire FO to LGA was what, June or July?
All the time, yeah right.

Ok, couple things. Skywest only flies CRJs in DFW, no ERJs. DFW is a new and growing base. You will hold it very soon and your seniority will move very quickly.

Envoy is no-go for me due to lack of flight time. (What's the point of going to a regional with pay / flow if you're not flying?)

That said:

if you want to fly AS MUCH AS YOU CAN as a first year ERJ hire at Skywest, what kind of hours are you logging per month/year?

CRJ time too for other people's SA, but please specify (i'm only interested in LGA base)

(Re flow: having a pretty-much-guaranteed major job at the end of it)

There are lots of good reasons to not go to a WO with a flow. Passing up on a flow solely because you won't fly right away is not one of those reasons.

Not flying is not a problem on the 175.

Mesa, I'm dead serious.

DFW on the CRJ, IAH on the ERJ. You can fly your ass off on both of them. Big bonus, 3x open time, training is fast and actually pretty good.

Get in, get time, get out.

I would agree with the Mesa theory.. Except if Mesa losses the CRJ’s for United they will be fat 300 pilots. Anyone hired into the CRJ at just the wrong time could be years on reserve..

Envoy isn’t bad on reserve if you live in base. Commuting to it sucks. Come to our thread and you’ll be given proper education. That being said, we have a lot of growth on the 175 with the first of over forty new airplanes coming. In addition if the LAX rumors come true, that will be another twenty. The movement is fast. The flow is a nice back pocket item to have. ALPA is conservative in the flow movement and the company is optimistic. There’s a middle ground somewhere. It all comes down to if you absolutely need the flow. Are you a white male without a degree and a checkride failure? If so then you might need a flow and they might take you. If not then drink some Kool-Aide and see what Skywest has to offer. They make more and have a lot more choices for bases.

SKW reserve is living hell, doesn't matter if you live in domicile or not.

Take the SKW rates and subtract 5 to 7% due to the credit or better pay instead of the industry norm of block or better. Historical credit is controlled solely by the company. Our work rules are substandard and basically a pattern bargin element 2 to 5 years after the rest of the industry.

Your going to get LGA, DTW, MSP, or ORD out of training, the good domiciles take a while. If somebody says the got SLC or SFOout of training , they are super lucky.

Choose wisely, even now you will be in the regional hell for 2 to 5 years.

There’s always Fresno!

And COS. NH’s have been getting that also..

And DFW...

With 50+ CRJ NH’s every 2 weeks. the next few months- indefinite? they will spread people around. Smaller classes of 20 it was easy for them to send them all to ORD/DTW. I predict lots of movement this spring.

The 5%-7% is a number that someone decided sounds good. Don't get me wrong, it's stupid that we don't get true Block or Better, but lets not embellish the situation. Our Historical Credit model is almost verbatim in the PPM to what 9E has in their CBA (they call them SAT's--Scheduled Average Time or something).

Our rigs are better than everyone else but I will acknowledge that our OT incentive system, reserve rules and proffering is absolutely f*cking stupid when in fact we are well taken care of. It's all relative and we all want what we don't seem to have.


My point to everyone is this: As much as pilots (including myself) love to complain, it's easy for us to make the case that we work at the worst hell hole on earth.

Be wary of the bold statements.

Go into open time and find as many trips as you can without a DH or stand up, there's your -5 to 7%, but that's also the percentage one of the SAPA number guru's came up with.

Find out how many ALPA carriers have fired pilots for flying mistakes. If it's as many as SKW, I'll let it go. Don't tell me that we have anything more than what was bargained for at other airlines. We are always behind the curve and with the industry lagging pay scales approved you can expect it to be that way for years.

The truth.....

The sale of XJT to UAL will begin the long slow painful decline of SKYW... Avoid at all cost.

Holy crap. Why are you so bitter? There is no way the company has screwed you nearly as badly as your attitude makes it seem like they have. You obviously can't hate it too much since you have frequently stated that you have been here for 20+ years. Did you not want to go to a major? Or will they just not touch you with a 10 foot pole because they can smell the poison coming off of you?

How do you figure? Secured the UA flying plus posible additional aircraft,?? That sounds like continued quick upgrade and movement so uou can get in, Get your time and get out.. Thats just the UA flying. 1/4th what OO does..