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-   -   Training issues at SKW (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/skywest/119195-training-issues-skw.html)

njd1 02-03-2019 04:12 PM


Originally Posted by Check Complete (Post 2744406)
Looking at the contract at Republic, there is to be no training before 06:00, no sim before 08:00, no training can start after 22:00 and no checking event can go past 24:00.

Sure I get it that we may have to fly the line before or after the hours of training at SKW but having a checking event until 02:00, especially if you are a east coaster is rough. SKW has what's called "virtual owner ship of the sims and the only time they cannot be used is for 4 hours per day for MX. SKW pays for the other 20 hours and they want every second used for financial reasons. Quantity over quality. Simple as that.

I can say that more often than not the level of training after the mid break at midnight is usually very diminished, regardless of the student efforts. Instructors get tired too. And 04:00 is just simply wrong!

I don't know what contract you're looking at because when I was doing initial at Republic last summer I sure has hell had 10PM-2AM sims. In fact, most of my sims were at that time. Wound up with a wicked sleep deficit on top of generally not being able to think during those zombie sessions and ultimately failed the checkride...twice. Terminated.

Went to C5 who had me report at 8AM (for 10AM-2PM sessions) for a bulk of our sims and my experience was literally and figuratively like night and day. Funny thing is we had to fly at 4AM a couple of times and I didn't say a word...but my otherwise awesome sim partner kept forgetting callouts those mornings and during the break he looks over at me with this confused look on his face and says "man, I just feel off...I can't think". Yea, that's because his brain was still asleep at that hour like mine was at Republic.

Friends don't let friends do late night sim sessions. It's a recipe for failure, even if you bring talent to the table, study like mad and do everything asked. I'm living proof. Don't let any airline train you to failure because like the old song says "this will go down on your permanent record".

Never2Late 02-04-2019 07:14 AM


Originally Posted by njd1 (Post 2756145)
I don't know what contract you're looking at because when I was doing initial at Republic last summer I sure has hell had 10PM-2AM sims. In fact, most of my sims were at that time. Wound up with a wicked sleep deficit on top of generally not being able to think during those zombie sessions and ultimately failed the checkride...twice. Terminated.

Went to C5 who had me report at 8AM (for 10AM-2PM sessions) for a bulk of our sims and my experience was literally and figuratively like night and day. Funny thing is we had to fly at 4AM a couple of times and I didn't say a word...but my otherwise awesome sim partner kept forgetting callouts those mornings and during the break he looks over at me with this confused look on his face and says "man, I just feel off...I can't think". Yea, that's because his brain was still asleep at that hour like mine was at Republic.

Friends don't let friends do late night sim sessions. It's a recipe for failure, even if you bring talent to the table, study like mad and do everything asked. I'm living proof. Don't let any airline train you to failure because like the old song says "this will go down on your permanent record".

Question- When you have late night sims, are you in class before hand or once you are in sims, ground is over? In other words when you have sims from 10pm-2am, what are you doing the rest of the day? Group study? Ground?

trip 02-04-2019 07:22 AM


Originally Posted by Never2Late (Post 2756485)
Question- When you have late night sims, are you in class before hand or once you are in sims, ground is over? In other words when you have sims from 10pm-2am, what are you doing the rest of the day? Group study? Ground?

Group study is over, just you and your sim partner.
Sleep in till 9 or so, get up grab breakfest before it closes, go for a run/workout (do flow/callouts in your head). Afternoon time is for self study, practice flows/callouts and meet-up with sim partner to study and go over the next sessions material.

word302 02-04-2019 07:33 AM


Originally Posted by amcnd (Post 2756074)
^ya. 10 years ago (pre-175) was “build the aircraft”. Now the CRJ side has adopted the ERJ Training model... definitely not the “up or out” days anymore.... but don’t ever study alone! Thats the first sign of failure...

Lol. I always study alone. Group study ain't for everyone.

DarkSideMoon 02-04-2019 07:44 AM


Originally Posted by word302 (Post 2756499)
Lol. I always study alone. Group study ain't for everyone.

I practice flows/callouts with a partner but that’s it. Group systems study just tends to devolve into 5 hours of dicking around and maybe an hour of real content.

wrxpilot 02-04-2019 07:48 AM


Originally Posted by word302 (Post 2756499)
Lol. I always study alone. Group study ain't for everyone.

Agreed. It’s a silly statement that’s not applicable to everyone. As always, one must do what works best for their learning style. Working in groups is actually counter-productive for people like me.

I’ve made it through training at charter, corporate, regional (Brasília/CRJ/175 FO and CA at SKW), and major airline programs with a perfect checkride record, and never once studied in groups.

I have stated on other posts and I’ll say it again: practicing your flows, callouts, and checklists with your sim partner is absolutely essential though. Not doing that will definitely set you up for failure. Also, someone posted about compromising sleep for studying - terrible advice. Getting your 7-8 hours of sleep is essential for productive learning.

Tippy 02-04-2019 07:48 AM


Originally Posted by word302 (Post 2756499)
Lol. I always study alone. Group study ain't for everyone.


Agreed. Group study usually turns into a BS session. 4 training events at SKW I've studied alone and never struggled.

rickair7777 02-04-2019 08:00 AM


Originally Posted by word302 (Post 2756499)
Lol. I always study alone. Group study ain't for everyone.

Me too, but it's probably necessary for some people. Each to his own.

dera 02-04-2019 08:14 AM


Originally Posted by njd1 (Post 2756145)
I don't know what contract you're looking at because when I was doing initial at Republic last summer I sure has hell had 10PM-2AM sims. In fact, most of my sims were at that time. Wound up with a wicked sleep deficit on top of generally not being able to think during those zombie sessions and ultimately failed the checkride...twice. Terminated.

Went to C5 who had me report at 8AM (for 10AM-2PM sessions) for a bulk of our sims and my experience was literally and figuratively like night and day. Funny thing is we had to fly at 4AM a couple of times and I didn't say a word...but my otherwise awesome sim partner kept forgetting callouts those mornings and during the break he looks over at me with this confused look on his face and says "man, I just feel off...I can't think". Yea, that's because his brain was still asleep at that hour like mine was at Republic.

Friends don't let friends do late night sim sessions. It's a recipe for failure, even if you bring talent to the table, study like mad and do everything asked. I'm living proof. Don't let any airline train you to failure because like the old song says "this will go down on your permanent record".

Your brain is asleep only because you're trying to keep a normal circadian rhythm.
When I have the graveyard shift, a few days prior I start adjusting my sleep rhythm, so I wake up at around 4PM those days and go to bed at 5AM.
Gives me plenty of sleep, and I won't hit my circadian low in the sim.
Does it suck? Heck yea it does. But is it doable? Yes it is.

word302 02-04-2019 08:44 AM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 2756525)
Me too, but it's probably necessary for some people. Each to his own.

Which was the point I was trying to make. If studying alone is a sign of failure I guess I didn't get the memo. I absolutely work on flows/callouts with my sim partner but rarely engage in group study. Sometimes I'll join the group for a little camaraderie, but rarely get anything out of the sessions. AMCND loves talking in absolutes.


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