175 FO to CRJ CA?
 

Hey guys,
I've been an FO on the 175 for 10 months. Looking at future upgrade options and seeking some insight.

I have around 500 hours on the ERJ and 1100 hours in a Beechjet (I'm told this counts toward the upgrade since it was 135) approaching 2500 TT. Learning a new jet and upgrading at the same time seems daunting to me, but I know it's been done.

Would you recommend transferring to the right seat of the CRJ, then upgrading once I'm comfortable? I dont want to risk a training failure for biting off more than I can chew. Maybe someone who has done it can chime in here.

As a new CRJ CA, how far out is DEN or ATL? And would I mostly be doing 200 flying?

Thanks very much.

Edit: I'm not sure what kind of seat lock situation I'm dealing with.

I’ve been told by quite a few people (some APDs, and logbook reviewing types) that 135 time does not count toward upgrade times.
It has to be 121, Twin turbine, multi-crew for it to count.

I specifically chose to keep instructing because the 135 wouldn’t count toward that upgrade time anyway.

I would check with a few more sources before you expect an upgrade at the next bid.

Yeah I've heard mixed responses on that. I was told this by an LCA in the training department but I'll ask around. Thanks

135 most definitely counts (PIC, 10+ seats, turbine, type rating required). Airlines like Envoy have been hiring direct entry captains with nothing but 135 time.

My experience was SIC type, multi crew jet. Beechjet requires two pilots. From what I remember being told by the guy checking my logbook, that is enough to qualify. Of course, everyone seems to have a different interpretation.

But I'm really looking for advice on the transitional upgrade if anyone has done it and can shed some light.

SIC time doesn't count.
Basically only the 135 time that requires ATP by regs counts.

Interested in the same question. Hopefully someone will chime in regarding that versus the tangent of what time counts toward the 1000 hours.

i think this was covered already but per far 121 you need 1000 hours of any of the following
pt.121 SIC
pt. 135 PIC in a plane with 10 or more seats ME ( like another poster requires a ATP by regs to be PIC)
pt. 91K PIC (same as 135)
you can count up to 500 hours of mil PIC in a multi engine, multi crew, fixed wing AC

second thought, SKW is currently not letting FOs switch seats with any regularity. look at all the CRJ FOs in SLC who are not being let onto the 175 as new hires get the base. when you were hired you have a 2 year seat lock and if you switch airplanes that would incur another 1 year seat lock before you can upgrade, assuming they even let you change planes.

My understanding is that seat lock does not apply to upgrades either to the same equipment or switching. This is based on multiple sources I’ve talked to but can’t find the written reference so I may be wrong.

121.436 f serving as pilot in command in part 121 operations, has 1,000 hours as second in command in operations under this part,pilot in command in operations under § 91.1053(a)(2)(i) of this chapter, pilot in command in operations under § 135.243(a)(1) of this chapter, or any combination thereof. For those pilots who are employed as pilot in command in part 121 operations on July 31, 2013, compliance with the requirements of this paragraph (a)(3) is not required.

I’m interested in the answers to your question. People assume he has the time to be legal to upgrade. Can you answer now?

if you transition to the CRJ that will incur a 2 year seat lock unless you are breaking it to upgrade in which case it is a 1 year seat lock. they may let you out of it but its in the PPM, sp3023.

The transition will be challenging, but not impossible for someone who has the experience. The CRJ has a lot of quirks. You’ll be learning a lot from your FOs for your first few hundred hours. Also, I don’t believe SIC 135 time counts... reference the regs or the Kelley letter.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...rpretation.pdf

You're the first person to actually answer my question lol thanks

Well partially. How much 200 flying will you do? How long do Denver etc ...

ATL is all -200, den non DMA is mostly -200. this most recent vacancy award had DEN at CA at 2.5 years, last month had a few CA awarded to ATL under 2 years. just like financial disclosures, past performance is no gaurentee of future results. from what i have heard, we will be growing DEN in the next few months

i went right seat CRJ to left seat so i cant give you insight on your predicament, but you would go through the full course (about 1.5 months, same as a newhire). I flew with a few CAs that went ER7 FO to CRJ CA and they seemed to do fine.

I know a friend that did this upgrade/transition at the same time last year. Started in the winter in the Chicago or Detroit area and had to divert 4 times in the first month off IOE. It’s definitely not trivial but others have done it and got through just fine.

It does seem like there are more E175 FOs are upgrading to CA on the CRJ so I’m guessing the training department is going to have seen a lot of this by the time either of us show up to class.

ERJ FO- CRJ Captain isn’t that big of a deal.. the main struggle is missed approachs, and some of the callouts are roll reversed...

Aren't CRJ upgrades at mins right now? Not sure if I should hold off for the ERJ upgrade (2-3 years?) Or just go for the CRJ...

Or you could go read the FAR and get the right answer the first time. Some particular 135 time does in fact count.

Actually several people answered it by quoting the FAR. It's not really that hard to figure out.

No they didn’t. He didn’t ask if his 135 time applied. He asked about 200 flying and specific bases.

CRJ upgrades are at 2 yrs seniority give or take.

Ya 2 years. Jr basses awarded this month MSP/IAH/ORD/COS..

2.5 years and increasing rapidly. CRJ is shrinking, down 3% in block hours YOY. Run.

Alright doom and gloom... we still have delivery's coming.. yes some 900’s going to Air Canada, but also 2 700’s for AA coming also.. CRJ classes are 60 NH’s every 2 weeks and they just sent a email out saying they are hiring more CRJ sim check airman.. 20~ im told. Hardly “run”....


I would have liked to see some of you guys time travel back into the 90’s regional industry.. turbo props and 3-6 year upgrades... “say what!!”

10 upgrade awards under 2.5 years this month and only bid in past 6 months that was over 2 years to hold CA was the first one back in end of DEC for a Feb class, meanwhile ERJ CA has been consistently 3-4 years to get awarded it in same timeframe

I spent 2 years in the 175 as a FO before making the upgrade on the CRJ. Honestly there was no issues. It was all str8 forward. Training department on the CRJ seems like an iPhone factory. They are trying to produce as many line pilots as quickly as possible. Training seemed dumbed down. I felt prepared hitting the line but as mentioned earlier I learned several things from my FO’s the first few months on line.

As for the 8 other ERJ FO’s that upgrades on the CRJ in my class... 4 of them were previous CRJ drivers. Of the remaining 4 of us 3 got through with ease. One failed out and returned as ERJ FO.

My 2 cents if you wanna move on... take the CRJ when you feel comfortable. The ERJ seems like about a 4 year upgrade.... and that’s in LGA and reserve. The PIC time will come fast if you feel comfortable making the transition. It’s not hard. Just a more involved airplane.


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& as far as 2.5 yrs on the CRJ goes, I would argue the number is only that high lately becuase of the sheer number of senior FO upgrades that have been waiting for the likes of DEN, COS, IAH have finally been awarded and are taking up class slots. It'll probably drop back down after that cohort is satisfied. MSP went junior this month, ATL last month, DTW in March so it's in major flux.

Where could a direct entry captain expect to be assigned on the crj?

The last guys to get that got ATL.. That boat has sailed for now. But i think Sub 2 year Upgrades this summer..

There have never been DECs here. There have been some FOs awarded CA positions while still in new hire training. That hasn't happened for well over a year. Don't come here expecting to upgrade in less than 2 years.

I agree, my point was upgrade was not 2.5 years and trending up like the person i quoted said. I think the jr CA was under 2 years

skywest does not have DECs and with the ammount of hiring we have done in the past 6 months i would say a 1.5-2 year upgrade is optimistic for someone who is not on property yet

Out of curiosity in what phase of training did that individual washout ?

Training failures are down over last year... extra training is slightly up.. i would guess Maneuvers training. Lets be honest... Study, come prepared and you won’t have a problem. Sit in the right seat staring out the window not paying attention to anything, and you will have a problem..

Sims. They made it past FTD’s then washed out.


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So out of 5 upgrades from ERJ to CRJ without previous CRJ experience, 4 passed- a 20% failure rate.

These are pilots that have been flying the line for at least a couple years in the 121 environment. I hope that person was an outlier. I wonder what the overall rate is for this sub-group.