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Turbosina 09-02-2016 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lambourne (Post 2193676)
That is a tired and RJ pilot myth on why they exist in the industry. Mainline has pay rates and work rules for the RJ. All management needs to do is put them in service at mainline. The big downside is all the RJ pilots that were locked in a bitter life timers that perpetuated the myth that mainline pilots put them in A corner get shown the door.

I highly suspect you were not in the industry when mainline forced RJ on the pilot groups. If you don't really know the history it would behoove you to learn so you don't sound so misinformed.

So tell me, since work rules and pay rates are all in place as you say, what's stopping mainline mgmt from bringing every single RJ to mainline? Hmm?

And tell me, which mainline pilot group voted down pay raises in order to prohibit RJs being flown by regionals? Which vote was that? I don't recall.

Lambourne 09-03-2016 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbosina (Post 2194464)
So tell me, since work rules and pay rates are all in place as you say, what's stopping mainline mgmt from bringing every single RJ to mainline? Hmm?

And tell me, which mainline pilot group voted down pay raises in order to prohibit RJs being flown by regionals? Which vote was that? I don't recall.

Why? Because guys like you are willing to do it for a few dollars less than mainline. We have tightened the scope language we have put the rates of pay in the contract. Until guys like you stop lining up to fly those shiny jets they won't move to mainline.

Where were you in the late 90's? At my carrier we were sold a contract by our ALPA leaders that had way too many holes in scope. ALPA and the company agreed that the RJ would be used to supplement NOT replace mainline flying. They were give. 1 for 1 block hours of mainline and an ALPA oversight committee to make sure it was all legal. At an airline that operates lots of 13 hour flights that created 13, 1 hour RJ flights for the very one of our long haul segments. As they pulled down 727 and 737-200 flying on one hour segments they were replaced by guys like you jumping at the chance to fly new jet at 1/4 of the cost of a mainline pilot. That was like giving crack to airline management. They loved the whole thing.

So the pilots saw what happened and it took us until the last contact to correct the scope language. The fix is in and the tide has slowly turned in our favor on scope.

You like to paint the major pilots as the bad guys. Unless you have been at a regional since the days of all turboprop Ops then you are a big part of the problem. You had a big hand in continuing the use of RJ's. If you had said I'm not going to do that job for that wage it wouldn't have been as useful to management to kill mainline flying. If you have been at a regional since the turboprop days then you either failed major interviews or sat on the sidelines while the largest hiring boon post 1978 took place. I agree the major pilots contracts allowed for the use of RJ's but not in the manner they were implemented. However, when you look in the mirror realize you are a part of the problem also.

WesternSkies 09-03-2016 07:09 AM

This threads gone to plaid.
http://mentalfloss.com/sites/default...e_to_plaid.jpg

trip 09-03-2016 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lambourne (Post 2194512)
Why? Because guys like you are willing to do it for a few dollars less than mainline. We have tightened the scope language we have put the rates of pay in the contract. Until guys like you stop lining up to fly those shiny jets they won't move to mainline.

Where were you in the late 90's? At my carrier we were sold a contract by our ALPA leaders that had way too many holes in scope. ALPA and the company agreed that the RJ would be used to supplement NOT replace mainline flying. They were give. 1 for 1 block hours of mainline and an ALPA oversight committee to make sure it was all legal. At an airline that operates lots of 13 hour flights that created 13, 1 hour RJ flights for the very one of our long haul segments. As they pulled down 727 and 737-200 flying on one hour segments they were replaced by guys like you jumping at the chance to fly new jet at 1/4 of the cost of a mainline pilot. That was like giving crack to airline management. They loved the whole thing.

So the pilots saw what happened and it took us until the last contact to correct the scope language. The fix is in and the tide has slowly turned in our favor on scope.

You like to paint the major pilots as the bad guys. Unless you have been at a regional since the days of all turboprop Ops then you are a big part of the problem. You had a big hand in continuing the use of RJ's. If you had said I'm not going to do that job for that wage it wouldn't have been as useful to management to kill mainline flying. If you have been at a regional since the turboprop days then you either failed major interviews or sat on the sidelines while the largest hiring boon post 1978 took place. I agree the major pilots contracts allowed for the use of RJ's but not in the manner they were implemented. However, when you look in the mirror realize you are a part of the problem also.


Good grief!
DALPA let this cat out of the bag when they refused to fly the small jets. They had multiple chances to bring Comair aboard but egos prevailed. DALPA chose instead to work in hand with management to bring on the RJ under scope and creating the regionals you see today.
What's done is done.

sailingfun 09-03-2016 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trip (Post 2195063)
Good grief!
DALPA let this cat out of the bag when they refused to fly the small jets. They had multiple chances to bring Comair aboard but egos prevailed. DALPA chose instead to work in hand with management to bring on the RJ under scope and creating the regionals you see today.
What's done is done.

DALPA had no chance to bring Comair onboard as management was never going to agree to it. In fact DALPA was fighting to keep the flying we had as management threatened to farm out all the narrow bodies and Comair made it clear they wanted them even filing a lawsuit. When DALPA tried to explore combining the lists in the unlikely event they could get management to agree the Comair pilot group stated they would not consider any prenuptial agreement on seniority unless it was DOH and would invoke ALPA merger policy.
The good news is that those MRJ-90's are not coming to Skywest unless they stop all flying for Delta. The only version that can be legally flown is the short range 70 seater no one wants.

word302 09-03-2016 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lambourne (Post 2194512)
Why? Because guys like you are willing to do it for a few dollars less than mainline. We have tightened the scope language we have put the rates of pay in the contract. Until guys like you stop lining up to fly those shiny jets they won't move to mainline.

Where were you in the late 90's? At my carrier we were sold a contract by our ALPA leaders that had way too many holes in scope. ALPA and the company agreed that the RJ would be used to supplement NOT replace mainline flying. They were give. 1 for 1 block hours of mainline and an ALPA oversight committee to make sure it was all legal. At an airline that operates lots of 13 hour flights that created 13, 1 hour RJ flights for the very one of our long haul segments. As they pulled down 727 and 737-200 flying on one hour segments they were replaced by guys like you jumping at the chance to fly new jet at 1/4 of the cost of a mainline pilot. That was like giving crack to airline management. They loved the whole thing.

So the pilots saw what happened and it took us until the last contact to correct the scope language. The fix is in and the tide has slowly turned in our favor on scope.

You like to paint the major pilots as the bad guys. Unless you have been at a regional since the days of all turboprop Ops then you are a big part of the problem. You had a big hand in continuing the use of RJ's. If you had said I'm not going to do that job for that wage it wouldn't have been as useful to management to kill mainline flying. If you have been at a regional since the turboprop days then you either failed major interviews or sat on the sidelines while the largest hiring boon post 1978 took place. I agree the major pilots contracts allowed for the use of RJ's but not in the manner they were implemented. However, when you look in the mirror realize you are a part of the problem also.

Man why didn't I think of that? I should have just given all the regionals the finger and waited for my golden ticket to mainline. I think you're a little out of touch with the current environment.

minimwage4 09-04-2016 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lambourne (Post 2194512)
Why? Because guys like you are willing to do it for a few dollars less than mainline. We have tightened the scope language we have put the rates of pay in the contract. Until guys like you stop lining up to fly those shiny jets they won't move to mainline.

Where were you in the late 90's? At my carrier we were sold a contract by our ALPA leaders that had way too many holes in scope. ALPA and the company agreed that the RJ would be used to supplement NOT replace mainline flying. They were give. 1 for 1 block hours of mainline and an ALPA oversight committee to make sure it was all legal. At an airline that operates lots of 13 hour flights that created 13, 1 hour RJ flights for the very one of our long haul segments. As they pulled down 727 and 737-200 flying on one hour segments they were replaced by guys like you jumping at the chance to fly new jet at 1/4 of the cost of a mainline pilot. That was like giving crack to airline management. They loved the whole thing.

So the pilots saw what happened and it took us until the last contact to correct the scope language. The fix is in and the tide has slowly turned in our favor on scope.

You like to paint the major pilots as the bad guys. Unless you have been at a regional since the days of all turboprop Ops then you are a big part of the problem. You had a big hand in continuing the use of RJ's. If you had said I'm not going to do that job for that wage it wouldn't have been as useful to management to kill mainline flying. If you have been at a regional since the turboprop days then you either failed major interviews or sat on the sidelines while the largest hiring boon post 1978 took place. I agree the major pilots contracts allowed for the use of RJ's but not in the manner they were implemented. However, when you look in the mirror realize you are a part of the problem also.

You're so out of touch, from the thin air up there at United. All mighty mainline 767 CA looking down on regional scum. Probably one of those guys that pretends to look the other way when a regional scum walks by you. By the way, do you realize that you have on your avatar and name section that you're a 767 pilot, TWICE! We get it.

Turbosina 09-04-2016 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lambourne (Post 2194512)
Why? Because guys like you are willing to do it for a few dollars less than mainline. We have tightened the scope language we have put the rates of pay in the contract. Until guys like you stop lining up to fly those shiny jets they won't move to mainline.

Where were you in the late 90's? At my carrier we were sold a contract by our ALPA leaders that had way too many holes in scope. ALPA and the company agreed that the RJ would be used to supplement NOT replace mainline flying. They were give. 1 for 1 block hours of mainline and an ALPA oversight committee to make sure it was all legal. At an airline that operates lots of 13 hour flights that created 13, 1 hour RJ flights for the very one of our long haul segments. As they pulled down 727 and 737-200 flying on one hour segments they were replaced by guys like you jumping at the chance to fly new jet at 1/4 of the cost of a mainline pilot. That was like giving crack to airline management. They loved the whole thing.

So the pilots saw what happened and it took us until the last contact to correct the scope language. The fix is in and the tide has slowly turned in our favor on scope.

You like to paint the major pilots as the bad guys. Unless you have been at a regional since the days of all turboprop Ops then you are a big part of the problem. You had a big hand in continuing the use of RJ's. If you had said I'm not going to do that job for that wage it wouldn't have been as useful to management to kill mainline flying. If you have been at a regional since the turboprop days then you either failed major interviews or sat on the sidelines while the largest hiring boon post 1978 took place. I agree the major pilots contracts allowed for the use of RJ's but not in the manner they were implemented. However, when you look in the mirror realize you are a part of the problem also.

There's so much misguided silliness in this post that I don't even know where to start.


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