Ok Slip. Drama isn’t your thing, man. If you are talking about Jay L, I get your comments, but he is right in this case. He tends to insert himself as a lightning rod. I don’t agree with everything he puts out, but he is spot on with vacation.
The majority of the 49 percent of apathetic pilots who bothered to vote voted for change in vacation bidding. It has been a hot topic every year since I have been here. I have never even heard anyone mention changing line bidding unless they were putting up a straw man argument like you are about vacation bidding.
As I said above, my skin in the game is minimal. I generally get the weeks I want regardless. I just think the way we hand them out is ridiculous.

Funny. The vacation thing is about the only thing I've ever disagreed with him about. He is typically not the type to feather his bed at the expense of others, but in this case, he's one of the few that will benefit without paying for it, now or later. Take that as you will.


Straw man? Hardly.


I'd never heard anyone mentioning changing vacation bidding before the last few years either.

We've been experiencing the death by a thousand cuts around here, by voluntarily giving away exactly this kind of stuff little by little. Damn near every minor, and not so minor contractual annoyance we all gripe about was voted for, at some point, by the majority of this pilot group or agreed to on our behalf by SWApA.

Using the exact same logic and arguments they're using for vacation bidding, line bidding can certainly be next.

We've got the perfect storm of a vocal minority, several sympathetic BOD members and the same old, apathetic pilot group, which is the only reason this nonsense has gotten as far as it has.



Same here, which is precisely why I don't want it to change.

I hope that the company doesn't realize the windfall it will reap if we go one week per round, and tries to extract another concession in order to allow us to make this change. Maybe that will kill this idea for a while, and we can come up with a better solution for everyone, preferably in the next contract. We do not need any more concessionary side letters.

Give it a rest before you have a mental breakdown. Your 73 posts a day on the facebook page are not missed.

Go hug your family. You should have got hired here earlier to enjoy the block bidding before it may get changed.

LOL... I've posted, maybe, 10 times ever on there, so try again.

I've enjoyed the benefits of our system for over 20 years. Too bad you guys aren't gonna get to do the same. :eek:

Surprisingly, "we" had the presence of mind to not go one week per round. It's definitely a hit, but 2 weeks in the first round hurts a little less than one......:eek:

Omg, are you kidding me?! As advised above, “Give it a rest”. If the super senior weren’t abusing the vacation bidding system then there wouldn’t be a push to change it. Think about it.

Give what a rest? We dodged a bullet with this vote.

So, the solution is to go completely the other direction and punish the vast majority of the pilot group due to a perceived abuse by a few?

There wasn't a "push to change it" until a few guys figured out that they weren't gonna get the weeks they wanted because they were gonna age out before their seniority allowed it. A few BOD guys felt the same way, they started their "fairness" campaign with the letter publicizing, ironically, the benefits of block bidding, and here we are, voting on the lesser of 2 evils.

Think about this: The aforementioned folks are willing to give away one of the few benefits of being senior here, because they will never get to exercise that benefit under the current system.

I am not, and have never been "super senior" (certainly not even close to the rarefied 10-20% level, that the option one folks are complaining about), and I've always made the current system work to my satisfaction.

I've never taken a summer vacation week, yet, have had at least a week off almost every summer month since I've been here, even when I was junior. We've been doing a week at the beach every July for at least 15 years, and I haven't missed one. And I have not been even close to senior for the vast majority of that time.

Even with the multiple SWApA endorsed and pilot approved limitations (DTC, etc.) we have an amazing amount of schedule flexibility.

Apparently, many of our pilots are unaware of how much they can improve their awarded schedules by applying a modicum of effort. I realize that in this instant gratification, "everyone gets a trophy" society, that kind of thinking is offensive, but really, it is not that hard. If anyone wants some tips, PM me.

That said, I had no heartburn with changing the vacation bidding, until a few "vocal minority" guys felt that they had enough traction to completely destroy the system to the detriment of the senior now, and ultimately, most of the pilot group at some point in their careers.

Option one was petty, punitive and ultimately bad for the vast majority of our pilots, most of whom won't be junior forever.

Surprisingly, since we typically vote for the most harmful option, the majority of the pilot group felt the same way, and voted for option 2, which was by far, the less harmful choice of the 2 for the vast majority of the pilot group, even if many of you can't (or won't), see that.

Now, we'll see what we have to give up to the company to get it implemented. :D

Please explain your retro payout
 

Black helicopters are for real

It's not paranoia if they really ARE out to get you. ;)

This pilot group thrives on personal agendas, most of which are not beneficial to the majority of the group, and many have caused actual harm to our collective careers. Most were far more serious transgressions than the vacation bid, which was nothing more than an attempt at a seniority grab by a few semi junior older guys.

Heck, there are already a few guys salivating at the thought of writing an app, that they can sell to the pilot group, of course, that will facilitate bidding on the thousands of possible permutations of first round combinations.

Then you have the other, pro change folks asking for a revote, because the option that the majority chose was not the one that they wanted. You truly can't make this stuff up.

Please explain your retro payout
 

Just poking some fun at you...

Looks like the majority of the participating voters spoke...gotta respect that. Not buying that this was a select few BOD members personal agenda...4000+ won’t be buying that line either.