Looking to the Future
 

Looking to get some advice and info. I am a current regional FO at Envoy. The flow is a great backup plan but have always wanted to fly for Southwest. I am still pretty new to the 121 world but would love to hear some thoughts on what it takes to get hired on at Southwest. It seems like right now guys only get hired with 5-10,000 hours. I am currently at 1700 so I have a ways to go. What are y'alls thoughts on hiring in the next few years? Will the minimums to get on with Southwest come down? It may be a long shot but I was hoping by the time I am closing in on 3,000 hours to have a shot. Anyway thanks in advance for your thoughts

become a captain at your airline, then ASAP a LCA, instructor, something that makes you different than the avg pilot. Rack up hours, stay in touch with anyone and everyone you know who goes to Southwest. Apply, update often.

Lotsa dudes in the applicant pool with TT much much higher than yours, but who knows what the future holds. Seems the only 'low time' guys that get on are military.

G'luck

SWA doesn't have the huge numbers of mandatory retirements that some of the other major/legacy airlines do, but they do have a steady increase in retirements over the next several years. So basically keep your application updated and they'll tell you when you make the cut.

I did just this. 6600 TT 1350 TPIC check airman soon after I had upgraded. Hired August 2017

There's still the 73-type option. Nothing says I REALLY want to work for SWA louder than that. I know it hurts even more now in this environment to shell out $$$$ on the hope of a job offer, but if it gets you here even a year sooner, it would be a worthwhile investment.

I am also looking into SWA in the future. If i got an offer from Delta or some other airline before SWA where I could maybe get into the 737, would it be wise to take that and then transfer to SWA when the call comes or just hold out at a regional for SWA?

Is this a joke? Are you seriously asking whether to go to Delta or stay at a regional?

Has got to be trolling. With a fleet.

Thought I would tag on to this thread instead of starting a new one.

Looking at the next couple years, I'll meet minimums in the next few months, but trying to decide my next step to best add to my chances. Would welcome opinions.

1) upgrading to captain at current 135. Able to get roughly 800 hours a year as PIC. (Time does count as 121 qualifying) also will have opportunity for adding line airman, acp, training etc.

2) get a couple hundred hours of PIC, non qualifying 121, then move over to a regional as SIC. Due to training and reserve less hours over the next couple years but it would check the 121 box and get an additional type rating with hours in "a real jet."

Didn't go the cfi route so I'm inclined towards the first option for the PIC time.

Thoughts?

I don't understand
 

I'm not trying to start something but what's the difference between the kid with 1,700TT and the military jet jockey with 1,700TT over the last 20 years?

Looking to the Future
 

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...668f688bbc.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The dynamics and workload associated with the types of flying. The maturity level and cognitive function required to lead multiple aircraft into a combat situation, and deploying ordinance in close proximity to friendly forces demonstrates a higher level of proficiency than does landing a twin Cessna on a 8,000 Ft runway.

PS, I’m not a mil jet guy, I’m a former RW guy who has 1200 hours of flight time that most majors don’t even consider actual flight time.

Lol

Filler

Let’s see. Cessna on an 8,000 ft runway.

Being shot at. Then flying a jet and landing on a carrier. Having to catch a cable with a tail hook or go swimming.

Yeah, there is a bit of difference.

Because there is more airmanship in any one of the fighter guy’s hours than any 100 of the other guys.

Paging Wackmaster and his “but, but... we land at busy airports and stuff...”

To which any fighter dude that has flown in an LFE launch and recovery (which is almost all of them) just chuckles and says “that’s cute.”

Well... at least we all know what you Mil guys think of us now. [emoji52]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I don’t think I said anything disparaging about pure CIV flying, but you can hardly compare 1700 hours of flight instruction (I’d say typically almost all piston) to 1700 of F-whatever time. If somebody wants to do the math, subtract 150kts from the speed of sound, and there’s the big difference. And again, I’ve never flown any military jets, so I’m not bragging up my own experience here.

How does anything that a Weapons School grad F-teener does translate into 121 ops? Sorry bud, but quite a few F-teeners don't know sh!t from shinola in 121 ops and generally tend to have a much more difficult time transitioning than regional or even corporate guys, and yet everyone puts up with it. Sorry dude, no LFE launches, no ingress or egress routes here, no JTAC's, no SAM threats (usually), SEAD isn't necessary (unless maybe if landing on the south side at LAX), and the worst of it... we don't do 3-hour preflight briefs.

And that same dude is 'blind' before even pushing back here.

Congrats on getting off probation Warhawg, but humility goes a long way.

Well this thread went to sh!t in a hurry. This has been debated ad nauseum in 50 different places on APC. Move on.

Know a lot of regional and corporate guys getting hired at SWA with 1700 hours, do ya? The OP was comparing 1700 fighter hours to 1700 civilian hours.

Looking to the Future
 

It doesn’t take 1700 hours to fly any of these aircraft. Matter of fact, there are 200 hour pilots in Europe in the right seat of the very same airplane every brand new major airline pilot starts on with time on nothing bigger than a small GA twin in their logbook. There are 3500 hour 737/A320 captains in Europe too. Hell, with those hours, one STILL isn’t really competitive here...

Rightly or wrongly, in this country, there’s an inherent bias in favor of the mil types, and it stems from the stronger social and professional networking among the mil crowd than their civ counterparts. There is no other logical explanation. Embrace it, appreciate it, be grateful for it, and be humble about it... Most do and are humble, but just like with everything else, there’s always that 1% factor that somehow feels they need to swing their weenies around, and at this stage, it’s stupid and unnecessary.

So much here to unwrap. First, please give me the names of the European companies who are allowing 200 hour pilots in 737s so I can make sure my family never boards one of their planes. I’m hoping you don’t advocate such ridiculous low mins for US carriers, because that’s how I’m reading it.

Second, if your point about why military pilots have an inside track were true, then I would not have been laughed out of my logbook review at my first SWA interview for including 1200 RW hours in my 2800 military hours.

I don’t know much about you Zap or your background, and don’t assume anything one way or the other. I do know you have a lot more experience than I do in 121 and I’ve learned a lot from reading your posts the past year. If I met you, I’d pay for the beers and ask you all sorts of dumb questions, just like I did for my sim partner in new hire training.

Same goes for RJSAviator, who asked what makes a fighter guy so relevant for 121 Ops. I would agree with most of what you said, but that wasn’t my point. Go reread post #11 asking about 1700 civ Hours vs 1700 fighter. I answered that, and that only.... okay, with some extra snark directed at Wackmaster. After a year of his schtick that fighter pilots are unqualified to be here, and flying upside down, I couldn’t resist.

Please don’t project some dumba$$ arrogant fighter jerk’s attitude onto me when I said no such thing.

And briefs were 50 minutes, RJS. Not three hours.

Ok. I'll bite. I instructed for the premiere ab initio flight school in Europe for a few years, so here are my thoughts.

All of the pilots to through a very stringent selection process before being admitted to the flight schools (something the civilian side of flying neglects, unfortunately) then spend over a year in classrooms before touching an airplane. Then they would send them to the U.S. to complete primary flight training up through their multi commercial license. They would typically finish the program with just over 200 hours of flight time then proceed to new hire training at pretty much any European airline (Ryan Air, KLM, Lufthansa, Air Lingus, British Airways, you name it) flying an Airbus or Boeing. The airlines based much of who they hired on the student's training record among other things. The thing is... these guys were incredibly sharp and some of the best pilots I have ever seen, even at a the very elementary level I trained them at. I would put them up against 75% of the pilots at majors right now (both military and civilian trained); myself included.

I am all for ab initio training here in the U.S., I think it provides the best of both worlds; A very selective applicant pool and demanding training standards with a specific focus on airline ops.

Nobody is comparing a 1700 hour mil guy with a 1700 hour CFI in this ballpark.

Let’s compare the 7000 hour, multiple 121 type regional captain applicant with the 1700 hour viper guy.

Let’s actually not...but that’s what we see in new hire training.

The 1700 hour mil vs. civ with the same time is apples/oranges/trolling and a waste of time.

I know Rocky says "not needed" but I am still inclined to go out and get a 737 type. How will this help with my "points" for my app ?

Agree with all.

I felt like it helped me, definitely didn’t hurt me. If you can afford it, it’s a rather small investment when considering the career at stake. Others will disagree. I class up in 20 days.

Thank you for the reply. Yes I can afford it (would prefer not to, but yes, can afford it).

When you think about it, UPT (Military pilot training) is somewhat of a "premier ab initio flight school" in it's own right. The soon to be military pilots also go through a stringent selection process. Then, after ground training and a couple hundred flying hours, military pilots (if they graduate) are then dispersed to learn to fly anything from F-15's B-2's, F-16's, C-5's, F-18's, KC-10's, KC-135's, etc. So in that respect, if it's vetted enough, I tend to agree and don't see why a true ab initio program couldn't work in the USA as well. However, not particularly pointing at you, but to compare a 2000 hour F-15 pilot with a 2000 hour civilian pilot is a completely different conversation.

Precisely my point.

Now to your second point: I would never put a 7000 he civilian pilot in a Fighter, Tanker, or some other C of F prefix aircraft and expect them to do better than a 500 hr military guy. They weren't trained for that type of flying; It's apples to oranges.

Doug Masters didn’t seem to have a problem going from a Cessna 150 to a Viper....

😂

Post of the day...lol

One Vision, baby!

https://youtu.be/kvpsEKSNkkA

All it takes to fly a Viper well is 80’s rock music on a cassette player. All it takes to fly 121 well is Barry Manilow over a Bluetooth Bose A20.

LOL, it was only a matter of time. Well played sir.

At the Copa....Copa Cabana... [emoji445][emoji444]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yes it does RJSAviator, it does indeed.

curious
 

How many hours do MIL pilots fly per month. If the pilot was in the service for 10 years and has 1,700 hours that works out to 170 hours per year or 14 hours a month. That's probably less than a Doctor flying his Bonanza and we all know how that ends. The MIL guys are great at PAR approaches but how about an ADF, or holding?