Fume Events
 

It'll be ok. Senior captain told me it was just the sock getting moldy. /sarcasm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mods - please move to an appropriate forum. This isn't it.

Why not? There’s a SWA incident in the article.

Fume Blanc?

Maybe you should copy and paste this into your home forum (the Mesa forum). I got fumed a ton when I was at that dumpster fire. “It’s just moldy pack filters” the captains said. Yeah...ok...they are only moldy only when I pull the thrust levers to idle on descent?

I’m saying it’s general so should not be in any specific airlines forum. Interesting trivia the packs on the crj 900 are the very same packs as on the airbus. I still think the thread should be moved.

The danger is in the pyrolized oil. Every entity knows there is a serious health problem with exposure, yet none will take responsibility. These fumes are the equivalent chemically to chemical weapons. The neurological damages are numerous. Air crew are not covered by OSHA oversight. As far as I know, Spirit is the only American airline that has a very specific checklist for fumes. Many times fume events happen after an engine wash because corners are cut. Ask me how I know.

Also often caused by over servicing the engine/APU oil. That was one of B6’s big problems. Too much oil in the system, would find seals to come out of, then pool up, then be ingested on idle descents and spray the old dirty socks smell (later the magic marker smell after we switched oils). IAE2500 engines don’t help since their normal oil pressure is like 3x-4x that of other engines.

Also for you Guppy pilots, watch the A & B hydraulic systems for over-servicing. That can be a potential source of a fine event. They had a tendency at SWA to not follow the MX manual and only fill it to 96% but instead to over 100%.

I write it up. Some mechanics get ****ed off at me (don’t care) while others get ****ed off at the mechanic who over-serviced it. One bad fume event was more than enough for me.

Not the first time I have heard this. My Captain wrote this up. MX balked, he made them check the books and then they fixed it.

It’s crystal clear in their MX manual that the hydraulics are not to be over serviced above 92%. Next time you do a walkaround look at the placards on the hydraulic reservoirs in the wheel well. Here’s what they say:

We'd be writing them up every other leg. Maybe I'll keep track of how many I see over a week and submit an ASRS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hope you can see the writhing on the placard.

For the life of me I’ve never been able to pin down what I think could be the wet sock smell. I’ve had multiple occasion when an unpleasant smell fills the aircraft during descents in the CRJ but I’ve never known if that was the wet moldy socks smell that people are talking about. If I had to describe it it would be closer to dried saliva if that makes sense. Would that be what everyone’s talking about?

Is this related to the hepa filter they’ve been replacing for Covid or is it a totally different filter?

We’ve been asking for cleaner air on airplanes for decades and now it’s important when the hype can be used to attract passengers.

Chrystal clear.

I'm obviously not putting 2&2 together here. How does over servicing the hydraulics create a potential fume event?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The warning on the silver placard was what I was actually trying to post before. Not sure why it keeps wanting to upload sideways but just tilt your head 90 degrees to the left.

Potential for hydraulic fluid to get into the standpipe and the bleed air system.

Oh boy. Definitely something to pay attention to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It’s not. I doubt those HEPA filters are going to make a difference with the engine oil issue but couldn’t say for sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

just reading the FRM and it’s altogether different.

you're correct. Has nothing to do with filters. However, changing the filters was/is a problem. Ever see mold along the ceiling? That's a filter issue.
I took In aircraft out of heavy MX. Fired up the engines and evacuated because the smoke was so bad from oil on the engines. No pax.
over servicing is real.
id like to see an fume event is a mandatory xx days off with pay. That'd stop the errors.

Unfortunately, the damage to your body is already done at that point. Recovery in the form of days off isn’t going to remove the TCP toxin from your body, but I do understand the motivation to incentivize proper maintenance on the aircraft.

I know of at least one SWA FA who is permanently f_____ up because of a fume event on a -300 and hasn't been functional enough to perform her job in about a decade.

My friend is also permanently damaged from a fume event on a Delta flight. He can no longer hold a medical and will never fly again. There are MANY others.

This stuff is highly toxic and doesn’t seem to manifest itself in the form of permanent sickness until it reaches a certain threshold in a person’s body. Perhaps that explains why on one SWA -800 flight, no pax (full flight) went to the hospital after a fume event on the ground. However, all six crew members got sick enough to have to be admitted to the ER. Unfortunately, as air crew we’re getting exposed to mini fume events more frequently than we realize and it’s building up in our system.

Are there any tests that can be done to determine levels in your body?

I don’t know if there is for TCP levels but there is for carbon monoxide. The problem is that you’d have to have a record of test results BEFOREHAND to serve as a baseline before an actual event and then get tested immediately after the fume event. It can be difficult stuff to prove but people are becoming more aware of the danger.

Also TCP levels can be checked postmortem but obviously at that point it’s too late.

Here is a good website to start with if you’re interested in educating yourself some more:

https://aerotoxic.org/

This article in particular is “enlightening”:

https://aerotoxic.org/wp-content/upl...elegraph-1.pdf

cant stress this enough. If the A or B hydraulic system is over 100%, get it serviced!! Sometimes they do a quick transfer to the other system via a hydraulic pump on/off/ brake procedure. Other times they have to drain it. Sometimes they get annoyed with a write up when it’s at 102%. They say it’s within book limits. While technically true, the opportunity for hydraulic fume events exists with anything over 100% due to the fact that a failing check valve would allow the overserviced hydraulics into the environmental control system. If at or below 100%, it takes that possibility away. So why in the world would anybody leave with them overserviced when the fix is so quick and easy? I know I don’t. (Ps-before writing it up, be sure the electric hyd pumps are on. Sometimes turning them on will drop the quantity a couple percent)

and? Safety first, right? Eventually they’ll start servicing them properly.

Another procedure NOT approved by Boeing or SWA.

please expound. I was under the impression that it was an approved maintenance procedure to balance the hydraulic systems as long as it was performed by a mechanic. As far as pilots doing it, obviously not.

Precisely. It’s in the MX manual. I have the print outs from it. Like you said.....obviously not to be performed by pilots.

I’d like to see the MX reference. I’ve heard from a few in MX and Boeing that this isn’t an approved procedure. May be wrong and if it’s in the manual then great.

Still have the photo from one of our DHC-8s that landed with the parking brake set after doing that in the air, and forgetting the last step...

The following is from the JB internal forum. Of note, you need a baseline test, because the levels are all relative. After a suspected fume event, you quickly need to get another test to compare with baseline levels. If you get fumed and tested say 6 weeks later, the TCP will likely be out of your system, but the tissue damage will persist (but with no way to really test for it or link it to the fume event). Say you get fumed and tested and get results but you have no baseline? Well, it won’t tell you that much, as you need to compare it to something “normal.” I’ll try to find more info and post here.

Request these two blood tests from your doctor:

CHOLINESTERASE;SERUM
CHOLINESTERASE;RBC

I did it four months ago during my annual probing with my primary care doctor. They were completely covered by my health insurance but I don’t have the JetBlue health care discount program. I plan to have this done every year so that I accumulate an extensive history.

It is policy at Delta to write up any 737 that has had the hydraulics over-serviced or if a side is too high due to fluid transfer. Our max number 102%. I believe this policy was implemented after a study about what was causing fume events. Mtx also no longer fills above 100% because of this.

Great info. Thanks for sharing that with us. Although if you look at the red placard in post #19 of this thread, they’re supposed to be filling to 92% per Boeing (as it’s a placard on the hydraulic reservoir in the wheel well).

Interesting, at AA the number is 106%. Why is the number so different amongst the airlines and more importantly why do they not stick with the Boeing number of 92%?