New hire question
 

I’m coming from a regional and have a CJO at WN and have a few questions.

What’s the highest leg per day count you typically see?

What’s the typical block hour day (junior schedule)?

Average junior duty day length?

What’s the flying like at the junior domiciles?

tia

I’m coming from a regional and have a CJO at WN and have a few questions.

What’s the highest leg per day count you typically see?
average 3, as many as 5, but relatively rare.

What’s the typical block hour day (junior schedule)?
varies widely. I’d say 4-6 is typical.

Average junior duty day length?
Average about 8, but anywhere from 4-11 is common.

What’s the flying like at the junior domiciles?
flying is about the same everywhere, unless you’re doing ETOPS out of LAX/OAK. Those are Junior bases, but not sure if Hawaii flying goes senior or Junior.

tia[/QUOTE]

Ton of variables there. I would just say when you come to work, you will work. That’s how it works here with a few exceptions. You will do one leg days and four leg days. With the way things are right now you will work near contractual and 117 limits at times. Our reserves do make good money here because of all these factors, but you work…not sit.

OAK and LA have Hawaii so that can skew things as well and as a junior you will see a bunch of it (just not the super cushy stuff).

If you want to hang at a hotel for 20-30 hours at a time is this not the job for you. If you want to come into work and rack up some credit and go home, this is the place.

thanks all for your responses!

Commuting to Reserve (LAS, OAK, etc)
 

One last question. How’s commuting to reserve?
v v v v

Commuting to RSV is never awesome. No matter the airline.

One of the tools you can use is to set your preferences.

Not the best. We do not have “trip ownership”, just because you receive an assignment prior to RAP it essentially means nothing….and you are required to be in position and phone contactable (cannot ack assignments via aircraft Wi-Fi) for reserve anyway. Some issues on the back end getting released from DH back to base and things like that. Fixes are supposedly in C2020.

Trip ownership means a line pilot can’t take your reserve assignment. This CAN be useful to someone that has a two hour drive as example—so you don’t show up for an assigned trip only for it to be gone.

Once you are flying anyone is on reserve…lineholder or not!

Up until this month, I would say you would probably come out ahead using a hotel vs. a crashpad. I used to use a hotel just for the night before a reserve block started and rarely have to spend the night in base after that. For some reason this month I've spent more nights in domicile on my own dime than any other. There have been a ton of local turns that end up getting released until your RAP the next day. Not ideal for commuters, and I'm hoping it's just temporary. If not, I'm going to definitely need a crashpad pretty soon.

New hire question
 

There is no way to sugarcoat how bad commuting to reserve at SWA is. It's terrible. I did it for 18 months and it made me give serious consideration to quitting and trying another profession.

You have two options, AM or PM reserve. It's basically pick your poison and depends on your personal preference. AM you have to commute in the day before and your rap starts at around 3am local. PM you can typically fly in the same day you start your block and the rap starts around 11am.

AM reserve will have you flying mostly front side of the clock with soul crushing early reports. The last day is key, though, because you are typically not used or released very early in the day and are home for dinner.

PM reserve will be delays, reroutes, and lots of late nights. You will typically have to stay in the base on the last day of the block unless you go unused and then you can self release around 6pm and head home.

All of that being said, once you start a trip, they can and will "RAP flip" you and have you flying a trip completely opposite of your AM/PM body clock. They do this by deadheading you to the overnight city at the beginning of your RAP and then starting you early the next day and vice versa with AM to PM. Your only line of defense is a fatigue call, which most probies are hesitant to do. You will also fly with all of the avoidance bid a holes on reserve.

Used to be, reserve was pretty short lived, about 6 months or so. Right now, it's trending a lot higher than that and that is making it painful for those who have to endure it.

Myself and others have noticed that there seems to be an increase in overnights in domiciles other than your own. Perhaps this has something to do with it?

That's a possibility. I think the main culprit, though, is scheduling/skysolver and their insistence on splitting trips at every possible juncture. I worked a leg with a captain last week who had a different FO on every single leg of his 3-day. What busted-ass program comes up with a solution like that??

That being said, I HAVE been overnighting in domiciles a lot when they do send me somewhere.

Thanks all.
TFly

New Hire Class Question
 

I got the call from the Chief Pilots office a couple of days ago welcoming me to SWA. I was told that I could expect a email to select a class date in the coming days. The email was sent while I was flying from KCVG-RKSI. By the time I could open the email it had been about three hours since it was sent out and the only class date left available to me was the end of September. While I'm thrilled to be joining SWA, I'm a little bummed that I missed out on an early class date because I was working at the time the email was sent; oh well water under the bridge. I sent an email to the Pilot Hiring and let them know that I'm open to an earlier class if available. My question is what are the chances I may get an early class date and does anyone have an insight on how people are selected for an early class date if one becomes available?

I was done with training before I was originally scheduled to start. That was this year. The key is to get the background check completed. Once that is done, you're eligible to start.

Let them know you are willing to show early. Preferably by phone call. I bet you get in before September.

I initially did not indicate I could come last-second, but subsequently revised my election on the web site and followed up with an email stating such. Within a few days, my class date moved up two weeks and I was still able to give my employer two weeks notice. Definitely worth a try!

I was offered 3 class dates earlier than what I selected. You’ll be in sooner.

It's not just domicile overnights....although those exist.

The real reason they will leave you in a different city is because they basically use everyone as 'airport standby' on the way back into base the next morning. There are plenty of time when they could DH back to base and you still have reserve days. But they tend not to do that. If they have a guy coming in at 8am from a DH, and one at 9am, and one at 10am......they keep their flexibility to use you as soon as you land. If they can't use you.....you go home and the 2hr call out starts all over.

It's their way to get around not having airport standby......by doing it this way, they basically get what they want.

something else to watch out for is the friendly CS who puts you on the direct flight to base on your JA day, “so you don’t have to connect”. Contract says first available flight back to base, not shortest. I caught it and my JA day went from 5 to 9.8TFP by holding them to the contract on this one.

This is next level contract stuff.

Take my advice, though, don't get it corrected to a double DH and then try to get released with the same scheduler. They act like you are stealing their kids' lunch money. I had to talk to a sup, go on extended hold, and the whole process took about 30 minutes before they finally agreed with me.

Get it corrected to double DH, thank the scheduler, then call back and talk to someone else in a couple of minutes to get released.

Or just tell now that my deadhead is the earliest arrival per the contract, please release me. If they hem and haw about it, remind them that this is also per the contract and this is a recorded line. Thanks, have a nice day.

TFP
 

Question, is there a method/reason that TFP is used instead of block/credit hours?

Also, is there a commuter policy?

What’s the per diem rate?

Does SWAPA take dues? Who funds it?

TIA!!

I called out scheduling last night and was actually deemed correct. A reserve on the last day returning to domicile that gets JA’d into an overnight CAN DECLINE IT. Stand up for yourselves.

1. STANDARD / NON-STANDARD TRIPFor purposes of this Section, a "standard trip" will be any trip for which the nonstop mileage according to the CAB book of airport to airport mileage is two hundred forty-three (243) miles or less. If CAB book does not have airport to airport mileage listed, DOT published figures will be used between airports.
   
   A non-standard trip will be any trip for which the non-stop mileage according to the CAB book of airport to airport mileage exceeds two hundred forty-three (243) miles. Non-standard trips will be paid at the rate of one (1) standard trip plus one-tenth (.10) trip for each forty (40) mile increment over two hundred forty-three (243) miles, rounded up or down to the nearest forty (40) mile increment.
   
   In the event there is in effect during the term of this Agreement a non-standard trip pay formula for Southwest Airlines Flight Attendants which would, if applied to Southwest Airlines pilots, be more beneficial to the pilots, then such non-standard trip pay formula used for flight attendants shall also apply to pilots.
   

1. A pilot must attempt to commute on a minimum of two (2) consecutive scheduled flights on Southwest or off-line from the designated city. If, because of flight cancellations, delays, lack of available seating (cabin or jumpseat), or delays beyond the commuter’s control (diversion, etc.), the pilot will be unable to arrive prior to the scheduled report time, the Company will be notified immediately. Alternatively, the second scheduled flight is not required if the primary flight on Southwest is scheduled to arrive in domicile at least one (1) hour prior to check-in.
   1. The Company will work with the pilot to get him back on his trip as quickly and efficiently as possible, or the pilot may be offered another assignment. If the pilot accepts another assignment, the pay for the newly assigned pairing will serve as the original pay calculation for any subsequent reassignment.
   2. The pilot will not be paid for the scheduled TFP lost or deadhead to rejoin the original (not newly assigned) pairing.
   3. The pilot should be prepared to verify that he was present for the two (2) consecutive flights.
   4. The pilot will not be charged with a no-show, as long as he is in compliance with this Section.
   5. The pilot’s domicile Chief Pilot may be notified.

$2.85 unless it’s outdated.

SWAPA pilots pay dues.

1% vs I believe 1.85% at ALPA carriers. Better value for money I’d say as well.

Given the terrible TA that UALPA produced for the UA pilots after more than 3.5 years of negotiations, they hardly got a return on their dues.

It'd be hard for SWAPA to do worse.

I believe probies pay .5 percent.

Anyone got a rough timeline of first week of Indoc? Is the spouse dinner the night before the first day or the night of first day? Do we participate in the new hire parade I see all over social media (please say no)? Anything you wish you brought or had? Any advice?

may be getting ahead of myself here: can I trade trips on probation? Will people take reserve trips? One of my coworkers was sharing some of his tips to trade/ELITT (similar to what I’ve read in this forum) and it seemed pretty exciting.

thanks for the help. Researched as much of this as I could!

I don’t know the current timeline as things have changed since 2015.

Yes, you can trade and vote as well.

As for advice, try to have fun. Go with the flow and don’t overthink it. Study the subjects at hand.

I don’t know the current timeline as things have changed since 2015.

Yes, you can trade and vote as well.

As for advice, try to have fun. Go with the flow and don’t overthink it. Study the subjects at hand.

Don’t be a buzz kill! It’s really a lot of fun, and something everyone looks forward to and enjoys doing.

You’ll arrive the day of the “spouse dinner”, meet in the lobby at 5, bus takes you to the dinner. Get back around 8, and that’s when the party starts. Next day is in the classroom, breakfast provided, lots of admin stuff and setting up iPad and email. Discussion of benefits/elections, meet more people, rah rah rah! Spouses get the tour and might even get to play in a sim for a bit. The next few days are much the same, and your basically wondering what the hell to study because after the following week you’ll take the oral. Review the originating flow once a day with your sim buddy, and study FRM along side lights and switches with your posters. Practice giving the systems speech with your sim buddy at night with beers in the study room. Try to have fun.

Thats for international. Its 2.35 domestic.

don’t spend it all in one place…like LaGarbagia

Props for trying to research stuff before asking. To address some of your unanswered questions, I think you’re referring to that cattle call where they have new hires march down the hallway while everyone else stands on the sides hooting and hollering….and no, unless something’s completely changed that’s just a thing for HQ new hires. There will however be one day during your training where your whole class will be scheduled with new hires from other departments to sit in a big room and, uh…learn about Southwest culture? It’s a daylong pep rally…just spike your coffee and it’ll be fine. No, really.
You’ll be able to trade trips as soon as your IOE trip is complete after training. Only actual trips can be traded in ELITT with the company, and trips or reserve can be traded pilot-to-pilot in TTGA. Generally no, people tend to not take reserve trips off your hands, but it does happen especially in slow months or if someone just really needs a day off and can’t otherwise move their trip for some reason. Usually I’d just find myself swapping reserve blocks with other people just to massage my calendar the way I wanted it.

We did that (the welcome parade) during Onboarding day, where the entire new hire employee groups get together and have exercises for a few hours. It was like a week into Indoc.

Ouch I’m sorry, things have changed apparently. Ok plan B: just go over the top with your excitement to be there. I’m thinking Will Ferrell/Cheri Oteri Spartan Cheerleader style.

You can spend it all in one place just about anywhere in our system. That is if they have an open restaurant.

Yup. I just spend $22 on a cheeseburger for lunch in Burbank, including our generous 0% crew discount. No sides, no drink. Just the burger.

The international terminal at ORD has ONE open restaurant. A Burger King. Even those little farmers friend vending machines were out of food.