Supposedly it’s base dependent. I know my domicile’s pilots don’t exactly have a great reputation with the FAs (file me under “don’t really give a $h!t).

One interesting phenomenon I’ve observed and swear by is that the higher the job satisfaction of pilots at a particular company, the lower the A-hole percentage. It seems that the more people are discontent with their employer the more it brings out the undesirable parts of their personality.

My sample size is four airlines and two dozen years in the “biz”. FWIW.

I think I heard about that story as well as some other ACA stories with my favorite being the male/female pilot crew that had sex standing up in the J41 at cruise with the AP on and because there was an area at the top of the door where the FA could see in via a reflection, they got busted and canned. Any Blue Ridgers care to chime in?

There was also the can of soda that spilled on the Airbus center pedestal that fried it.

That happened about 9 minutes into the movie “Fate is the Hunter” starring Glenn Ford and Suzanne Pleshette.

https://youtu.be/ez21oSqvGOI

Blast you, Zap! I just spent 2 hours watching that movie! I started at 9 minutes and kept going. Then watched the beginning.

He must be bored sitting in his hotel room on reserve 🤣

HAHA! You’re welcome. That’s the movie that made me want to be a pilot. At least the first few minutes when they lost the engine and, cool as a cucumber, Captain says “I spilled my coffee”
Glad you enjoyed it!

How did you know? [emoji1787]

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I feel like it’s an echo room of non military guys here…. Trust me as a mil guy I don’t want to hear your callsign etc... but it goes both ways. I don’t bring up my military experience and often get mistaken for a skywest pilot. My worst captain ever was all civilian tyrant that gave me ptsd back to upt days… (he’s gone now) Let’s keep the subject on how much of the contract that we need fixed and how far we can move the flag pole on pay rates.

I'm a no voter on anything short of 35% snap up rate or the highest 757 rate of Delta or United - whichever is higher, and subsequent raises tied to the inflation rate. Oh, and the assumption is at min pay guarantee - not 108 TFP.

Full retro is assumed. Anything short of full retro is an automatic no. BTW... retro needs to include rate change as well as NEC and PS monies with no earnings cap like last time.

LTD/STD fixed to be industry leading and company covered. None of this imputed tax BS.

Full government rate per diem - not a percentage. Anything short of that, and the company needs to provide crew meals. The Big 3 get crew meals and per diem.

NEC brought up to industry standard and matched with the highest percentage offered at either Delta, United or American.

These are my non-negotiable items. Fall short of any of those, I won't bother even reading the rest before I vote NO. There are plenty of other improvements needed, but these are the meat and potatoes for me.

For those who think this is unreasonable, look at the pay at regionals and their raise percentages. Then look at this website and plug in your pay: https://www.usinflationcalculator.com and then tell me it's unreasonable.

Remember last time, the union laid out how the company could easily afford to cover the entire Platform and remain highly profitable. The company agreed with the union.... they just didn't want to pay that. Well, despite the price of electricity going up substantially, I can still afford to pay my electric bill and save money. While it doesn't mean I want to pay that much, I know if I don't, I'll be sitting in a dark house with no AC. #FUPM

FUPM indeed.

Everything RJSAviator76 said plus that LTD has to have a retirement contribution included. Otherwise I'll be a no as well.

What was retro last time and how was it paid out?

Im also a no on any idea of loosening scope, adding PBS, or any combo of using paid parking or uniforms to entice pilots to take it. I was on a flight recently where there was lamenting of the lack of those two items.

Yes, what were the details on retro last time? My memory is fuzzy but I think it was full retro/signing bonus on wages but not retirement contributions correct?

Also, this was extended to retirees, those that left for other carriers & deceased (to their families).

The company gave a fixed amount. 600 million I think. Then it was divided up amongst current pilots, those who retired, and those who left. Of that it was only paid out based on a max of 275/yr earnings. Meaning if you made 300k you were treated as if you only made 275. No retirement no PS.
Like I've told my reps- that was not full retro and dont do that again. They like to claim it was.
no limit on earnings, NEC, and PS if we would have had any.

Thanks. That vaguely rings a bell.

During this contract cycle we should be making gains not concessions anywhere in this contract.

I like it as a discussion starter but it wouldn’t get my yes vote. I don’t think it’s “unreasonable” enough by a long shot.

Off the top of my head, what I’d need beyond what you listed (definitely not a comprehensive list):

• Initial pay rate raise of 55%.
• NEC match min of 25%
• Planned tail changes cost 1 TFP, unplanned tail changes cost 2 TFP.
• Duty days over 10 hrs pay premium. Overnights less than 14 hours pay premium for the rest of the trip.
• Hotel language brought up to industry-leading. Lots of specifics here but must be much improved over current language.
• Regular plan must be enshrined in contractual language with preventative care included. Company must pay for Resolute health care advocate services that SWAPA currently pays for. Pilots given ability to charge the company time at their longevity and seat position rates for having to deal with rejected claims.
• JA days pay actual min double time of 13 TFP or double trip pay, whichever greater

I agree with RJS but with Lews amendments. 35% is a little low and will be more so when this contract is TAed in 2025. Plus a minimum of 5% per year after it’s agreed to or inflation plus 3% whichever is higher. Now convince the 84% that are happy with lagging contracts. Get the 38% to just stop voting. Also add parking, uniforms and dry cleaning.

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JA should pay minimum of 13 TFP. The pilot should have the option of refusing the assignment, and if they do then CS is required to put it in open time at 200%.

Should be forced to place in OT @ 200% before involuntary JA. JA should be 300% with right of refusal.

JA should be removed from the contract completely. That's what reserves are supposed to be for.

Agreed. We didnt even have JAs at the regional. Or reflows outside of footprint. It was a hard stop. We need that.

Everything Lew said. And they can go back to calling at home for JAs instead of grabbing dudes off the line. That was just another screw job from King Karl if I remember correctly. Or as was just said, get rid of it all together. With proper rigs, someone will always take it. And they can cancel any other flights they can't figure out how to cover due to INEPTITUDE.

Unfortunately, the yessies will have the day when it comes. I promise right now there will NEVER be anything presented that I will vote yes on. Ever.

Must.Save.Goose.Happy.To.Have.A.Job.
​​​​​​Waiting 15 more minutes for a van won't kill us.

The Union is being too greedy.

The Company just wants to grow.

Those hangars are big enough for 787s.

Sim building walls are getting knocked out into the next parking lot.

Check out my Miata.

I think there should be an opt in/out option for JAs. There’s plenty of people that would opt in to cover their scheduling debacles and whoever is opted out can live in peace.

If things go to plan though, you will have about 2500 new people coming in the next 12-14 months that have most likely all left crappy contracts and want something top tier for once.

Completely agree. Put a checkbox in CWA to opt in or out.

Or, make a selection in CWA that says if I am assigned a JA, it automatically is put in giveaway (with correct pay reflected) and text alerts sent out to interested bidders. It'll be gone almost every time by the time you land. You'll never even know you were assigned.

Our tech debt and the clear apathy to make things better is preventing tech solutions from solving simple problems.

Crap contracts maybe, but not crap pay with the new/temp scales and bonuses. We don’t need an Alaska TA. Since probationary pilots will be allowed to vote it’s imperative that they get schooled.

Every time I hear someone say "Well we don't want to kill the golden goose" regarding asking stuff - a puppy gets punted off a bridge ....

Contract Expectations
 

On the whole JA thing -
VDT would solve the JA problem. Put it out for voluntary double time prior to assigning JA. That along with double rigs would ensure almost nobody would ever work a day off against their will unless they got stuck at an outstation (it happens).

There should be no concessions or give backs during this contract. This is the one where we make the big gains. Listen to the SWAPA number podcast with the industry analyst where he lays out the current negotiating climate.

Retirement, pay, disability, parking, uniforms, food, hotels, the list goes on. It should all be outstanding or we should be voting no.

It looks like DL is going to get their turn in the barrel soon. I suspect their TA1 is going to be leaps and bounds above anything that we would have achieved on our own. Our timing is actually working to our advantage this time.

I just realized something and I was dead wrong when I said I’d need at least 35% to consider voting yes.

The company showed what it’s willing to pay in the MOU last year. That needs to be the guidance with regards to pay rates.

Theres a thread somewhere in this forum about a regional guy making 47K in a one month. Yeah. Our ask is now pretty dang high.

Glad you see that error. Lol. But yeah 35% was too low.

A rising tide lifts all boats.


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Agreed, but it is still maddening to have watch the bull$7!t shenanigans that Carl & company have pulled in the last 2.5 years of negotiations. Fortunately, the mediator is having a positive effect on the playing nice.

Yes, we agree.

But this discussion is not about Carl.

The question was do we get mad when regionals get big pay raises?

I say rejoice! Good for them. The price for an hour of time at the career destination airlines just went up. Thank you regional pilots for fighting the good fight!

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Oh I agree. I am happy for them, but now it’s high time we get ours.

Flew with a cappy that thought there is no way we'd get released etc. Had to did into my lew posts to show him we absolutely could and how we need to not give in to anything we dont want. HOLD FAST!

I love the smell of leverage in the morning.....smells like victory!

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