Originally Posted by CatPilot1 (Post 3840610)

yup. Delta’s downfall will be epic.

Originally Posted by Proximity (Post 3840622)

Those of us that weren't trying to figure out rudders in a Seminole a few short years ago remember the Delta of say 2003-2006. Old fleet, Delta Express failure, DFW base closure, bankruptcy, first ever furlough for Delta, almost purchased by US Airways, very convenient merger with NWA. Sure I'm forgetting other stuff...

Don't forget two other very dirty things associated with Delta...the DALPA givebacks on scope that caused the shifting of flying to CRJs flown by "C-scale" pilots and the closing of Comair for the strike the late 2000s.

Delta has a great product, great network, etc right now, but if you'd posted here in on APC that was their future in 2006 you would have been laughed right back to your Myspace page.

Originally Posted by Proximity (Post 3840622)

Those of us that weren't trying to figure out rudders in a Seminole a few short years ago remember the Delta of say 2003-2006. Old fleet, Delta Express failure, DFW base closure, bankruptcy, first ever furlough for Delta, almost purchased by US Airways, very convenient merger with NWA. Sure I'm forgetting other stuff...

Don't forget two other very dirty things associated with Delta...the DALPA givebacks on scope that caused the shifting of flying to CRJs flown by "C-scale" pilots and the closing of Comair for the strike the late 2000s.

Delta has a great product, great network, etc right now, but if you'd posted here in on APC that was their future in 2006 you would have been laughed right back to your Myspace page.

Originally Posted by e6bpilot (Post 3840635)

A lot of posts on here recently by people who have clearly never seen the struggle days of this industry.

I don't think the sine waves are going to hit the peaks and valleys of the past, but it's still a sine wave. Delta is one bad management team away from going through it all again.

Every single titan of industry gets brought to their knees eventually. Sears, Pan-Am, and Standard Oil were all companies that were going to rule the world forever.

Originally Posted by Flyweight (Post 3840636)

Every airline is one bad team away. 5 years ago I said Delta and Southwest uniquely had the resources to survive an 80s/2000s bad cycle, if the regulators allow the freedom to do so. I still think that.

is being an airline executive so difficult or do the airlines attract idiots?

Originally Posted by e6bpilot (Post 3840640)

Definitely number two. It's an industry full of potholes and difficult to succeed in. We get the B team execs. At SWA they are mostly homegrown, which is double bad.

Originally Posted by Proximity (Post 3840669)

It's two things, the "homegrown" execs, and need for GK to keep control so not letting any in who would bring new ideas.

Southwest used to be agile, moving from an intra-Texas airline, spreading during deregulation, becoming a powerhouse in the intra-CA market/expansion after 9/11, grabbing east coast gates with the AirTran purchase. After that, they forgot how to be agile and be a "first mover".

Originally Posted by e6bpilot (Post 3839773)

I don't think they are going to go to a strictly hub and spoke at all. That would be a terrible idea. I think point to point will continue with the understanding that mega stations are going to be regional feed centers that do hub and spoke in that region. That's the way they have been operating at least since I have been here, more so now than ever. Customers fly SWA because they can go, for example, BNA to BUR or pretty much anywhere to LAS without having to make a connection. They can do it probably on multiple flights a day and if they decide to not go can get a refund. That's it. That's all we have, because our cabin product is terrible.

Clearly there are markets that have evolved like California where management is going to have to make some decisions going forward about how best to use our market power and scale there to drive more people to buy tickets since business travel has slacked off, at least for the time being. I think the future of our business is going to rely on our strong network and charging people for things that other airlines charge for like a second bag or seat assignment. That is, quite frankly, revenue that we have left on the table for far too long. People are clearly willing to pay for it if you are clear and up front about it. The legacy flex to basic economy has been a smashing success for them and, along with market forces and higher costs, has ended the ULCC market that was supposed to dominate the industry.

Here is what I know for sure, our current set of managers has done nothing to address any of these issues. I don't know if it's laziness or stupidity, and I don't really care. Someone needs to come in and fix us before it is too late. We are in late stage Roman Empire territory here where we just keep yearning for the old days that aren't ever going to come back.