SL 10 Grievance
 

New ratio of 5.75:1 captains per 737. Looks like some Pre merger Wn fos Could get bypass pay. Interesting to say the least.

From what I read, the bypassed F.O.'s will get captain pay. SWAPA and SWA settled that on 1/1/15 a snapshot of all B-737 aircraft (transitioned or not) will be taken and apply the ratio of 5.75:1 captains per aircraft. Any original SWAPA pilots that had the seniority to hold a captain seat but has not upgraded will receive captain pay.

The SWAPA president needs to put down the bottle and think before typing. Additional gloating at this point does nothing but make the former Airtran pilots want to exit SWAPA and the dues payment that goes with membership.

DFR anyone? I'm certainly paying for more than I'm getting from SWAPA.

ARE YOU PHUCKING KIDDING ME?????!!!!! So the AirTran Cptns that are/have been forced to downgrade take a pay cut and then they pay protect some SW FOs at Cptn pay?! You're joking right?

Someone please explain why I should not be going ballistic right now!

Because it's bad for your heart and besides, there's not a thing you can do about it.

Yeah, well we'll see about that. This is just plain insulting.

I soon as I read the first post
 

Why stir up the pot?

I know now that senior SWA FO's have nothing to complain about.
I would love to be a senior bypassed FO with Quality of life and captain pay. This would imply the most senior FO can make as much as the most senior Captain. WOW.

Funny how SWA needed to keep the AT pilots at AT pay for four years so they could pay for our training from 717 to 737s, and then sublet them to Delta. I guess they needed the money to pay senior FO's captain pay.

So if they take a snap shot 1 Jan 2015 does that mean former AT Capts, now SWA senior FO's who could have held the captain seat on that date should get captain pay too right. Especially if they have been putting gear up and down at SWA. I am sure SWAPA will protect the rights of all its members.:rolleyes:

Whack I hope you computer survives your new frustrations. I can't do it, but I really am beginning to see how you can want to give up.

SWA disaffects 30% of its new guys only to throw money at its 5%ers.
I keep trying to remember its business. It is all the slogans in the hallway at ops telling me how to behave and work and enjoy life when they don't show AT guys the same respect. It would be an interesting world if everyone had perfect integrity. We are all flawed.

Serenity now, SERENITY NOW!!!

Fly safe and keep em moving :D

Woodbourne why flame?
 

Why post that here? SWA has to have some internal message board.
Are you just trying to rub AT guys noses in it?

Not cool, not professional.

Exactly what does this new MOU say? Somehow 5.75 to 1 equates to capturing all AT 737 captain seats?

What's going on exactly?

It's not flame as I am a junior fo. Seeking a remedy for the companys inability to comply with an agreement is a duty of any union. However, this resolution will benefit less people than it will upset; usually you try for the opposite.

From your SWAPA President, Mark Richardson

Fellow Pilots,

As you know, last year I instructed our Contract Administration Committee to pursue a grievance over the transition deadline for the AirTran B737 aircraft. SWAPA and Southwest had previously agreed to transition all B737s to Southwest's side of the operational partition no later than September 1, 2014. This transition schedule ensured that the B737 Captain seats would be transferred directly to Southwest pilots as agreed-to in the seniority integration agreement.

I am pleased to inform you that SWAPA and SWA have resolved the grievance enforcing the intent of the Memorandum of Understanding (MOU).

The Company has agreed that the intent of that aircraft transition schedule was to provide negotiated Captain seats for Southwest pilots. The grievance remedy includes the establishment of a ratio of Captains-to-B737 aircraft (all B737 aircraft) of 5.75:1 at the end of 2014. This ratio ensures that Captain seats created by the transition of AirTran aircraft occurs as envisioned in Side Letter 10. Furthermore, the Company agrees to pay Captain rates to any First Officer wrongfully denied an upgrade if they fail to achieve this ratio by December 31, 2014.

The Company has posted their training schedule through mid-year. As you have seen in a memo yesterday, this aggressive timeline has upgrade classes of 48 pilots per month scheduled through August. Upgrades and training will continue beyond August to meet the 5.75:1 ratio.

SWAPA will continue to closely monitor the transition schedule and will quickly react if we perceive any further shortcomings in the implementation schedule of final transition.

Mark

The big question is does this agreement provide for the bypass pay to the senior RSW FO *AND* the (eventual) captain seat or just the cash? The letter from SWAPA says: "This ratio ensures that Captain seats created by the transition of AirTran aircraft occurs as envisioned in Side Letter 10. " I'm lead to believe from the letter language that it's both.

We now know the senior RSWFO's get the cash "if they fail to achieve this ratio by December 31, 2014." Do they get priority access to the seat too? How will this occur? It sounds to me by increasing the RSW upgrade numbers in Dallas this year at the continued expense of AirTran Pilots - taking a school house training / transition slot and turning it into a RSW upgrade slot.

I'm sorry but how can SW continue to screw the AT pilots and want me to smile, chat and be your buddy on the hotel van. It doesn't work that way and unlike what the RSW pilots say, they have a controlling hand in what is happening. I don't buy the statement that GK created this.

Anyone have the grievance settlement language?

After all that's happened why in the world would you feel compelled to fake it? Feel free to express your feelings. What's the point in trying to bottle it up? Do you think you owe this company or its "real" pilots anything?

As for the last part, of course they've had a hand in it. Do you think any of them called SWAPA while everything was going down to ask that we get a more fair shake? One of their favorite sayings is "Well, neither of us had any control over this, so we just need to get along and move on". Yeah, bull$7it. That's a coping mechanism when someone's feeling uncomfortable with the situation that they're in.

340 AT 737 guys
 

So there are about 340 737 captains and FO's on the AT side.
I have heard there are no or little plans to train till the end of summer.
This is backed up by the fact that SWA will not even start flying international till mid summer and that assumes all goes smoothly with training ( pilots, ground ops, agents, FA's), plus a whole new international reservation system. No big deal to fly it. Flying it and catching all the nuisances is a different matter.

SWA is lucky it can throw money at its problems. Much of it came from treating the AT side as 2nd class rather than equals.

They can't train 48 per month from the AT 737 side and keep the international up through mid summer. If they train 48 a month most will probably come from the 717 side.

SWAPA was not that successful. If the intent was to get the seats by Sept 2014 then SWAPA pilots are getting hosed out of 3 months of capt pay.
Either way someone will be getting paid and it won't be me. I am hoping for quality of life :)

We do?

Not even close.

We found out the same way and time you did.

Okay, last time...

Fake it? No. Never.

Owe them anything?! You're kidding, right?

...just a complete realization of what total selfish, greedy bullies they've proven to be throughout this entire acquisition. Does anybody remember the video SWAPA put out a few years ago when our jobs were at stake? The one with the real ominous music and the assets being sucked from Guadalupe Holdings and a crude animation of our jobs disappearing? That's a great way to start a good working relationship. No, we haven't forgotten.

Yeah, this has all been real fun for us and our families. So the next time some F.AG declines your coffee offer in line at Starbucks some morning, you'll know why.

In the end, they'll have to live with what they've created. We're going to be a joy to fly with.

But hey, remember the Golden Rule, right? Give me a break.

Why don't you take a minute and think about what you (SWAPA) have stolen from us. Posts like the one above are good examples of blaming others for what you, yourselves have collectively done. Actions have consequences.

Capture this.

I would encourage every AT pilot to join SWAPA. That way you have grounds to sue them in the future when they F you over again.

They never will.

You should've voted yes on the first offer. ;) Many of your gripes would've been negated by doing so.

84% of both pilot groups voted yes for the second offer. You had the exact same "hand" in the outcome as we had.

Roughly 16% of us on both sides wanted you to get a "more fair shake" via arbitration, but the majority of both groups outvoted us.


If it were up to me, SW would never have acquired AT, and we'd all be happy. I'd be most "comfortable" had this entire nightmare NEVER happened, but I had no say, other than my no vote, in the matter.

The ONLY RSW guys who've made out on this deal are the senior FO's, and IMHO, that will be a short lived victory as the FAT guys start displacing them.

For everyone else on the SW side, this entire debacle was, at best, a net zero, and for anyone south of the 50% point in either seat, a major kick in the nuts.

Exactly Slip.

But trust me, most of what you will read on this forum is how we (line pilots) fu(ked the Trannies and how "miserable" they're going to make it for "us" on line.

Nice huh?


BIG TIME. Are you guys digesting that statement? We didn't want this either.


But I have flown with several Trannies and had a great time with all of them. I refuse to make this personal.

But the first time I see this;

I will make my feelings known. Some guy who quite possibly got hosed on this deal as well is holding out an olive branch and you shove it up his ass?

Nice.

There's plenty of pain on both sides, and absolutely no reason to automatically be a dick to fellow line-swine.

I heard a lot of that nonsense on the MCO prison bus. Like somehow, I, personally, was to blame for the entire fiasco.




Ditto..... I've flown with about a dozen of them now. Every one of them has been great to fly with and do a great job in the airplane. I even flew with one of their more notorious SW haters (The Bigfoot Hunter) last summer and we got along fine. I'm not sure if that's more of an indictment of my personality or his...... ;)




Amen..... The entire situation makes me ill.

Totally agree, 4th Level.

I will operate the 737 the way Southwest wants me to, to the best of my ability and I will have a good time with my co-workers while I do so.

My time away from my family is valuable. I'm not going to waste it being ****ed off all the time.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I wish every pilot of every airline could read this thread. It summarizes the pilots of SW and is the reason for your reputation. Bookmark it and come back often when you wonder...

Let me spell it out for you:

YOU CAN'T ACTIVELY FUKK SOMEONE AND MAKE UP FOR IT WITH A COFFEE AND A SLANTED SMILE WHEN YOU SEE THEM AT STARBUCKS!!

I can't believe it.

They honestly do not have the capacity to understand.

My point is made. I'm done here.

Nobody actively "fukked" you. This was perpetrated WAY above the line swine level. This attitude is THE problem.....

Yup.

But like other's, he too full of self-loathing to see it.

Class act Mat -

Cocktails, food and STARBUCKS ;) on me - anytime.

I would expect SWAPA to grieve a failure to follow our agreements. On another note, I'm amazed how fast a new management team can make the wheels come off a bus.

Dfr
 

Bump

I'm leaving before the transition. SL9 was far worse than SL10. Why would we have voted for 9? I hate southwest pilots. Selfish and petty. We should sue somebody.

On the bright side, you nailed the screen name.

Good luck out there. I hope you find happiness whether or not that includes aviation.

I completely agree. I'm honestly embarrassed to be associated with them.

Spot on. Bingo. Seconded. Good luck and I hope your luck turns out for the better. Be sure to let any of them that might be on your future JS know how you feel. Although, from the sound of it you're like me......I don't think you're afraid to speak your mind.

Don't forget to give ol' Gary the one finger salute on the way out and let us know if we can help you at any future point.

Hey Whack, why don't you put your {new} money where your {big} mouth is - post your employee number so we can treat you accordingly.

Just ask some of the SW pilots that post here. Apparently they know who I am. Like I give a _____ if you'd have an ax to grind with me. Honestly after a paycut, loss of a third of my relative seniority, and my Cptn's seat for quite a few years after being in it for 7+ years, do you really think I care what you or anybody else thinks or has to say to me? Think about it. Most of the folks that have had to downgrade for several years will have no problem telling you where to go if you approach them with that attitude.

There's only been one Cptn that I've flown with who's been dumb enough to utter, "Well, you got a good deal (or anything along those lines)". He got a good piece of my mind followed by two days of nothing but standard calls and checklists after which he sincerely apologized.

I rest my case.

The only one I see with 'attitude' - is you.

Really? Go back one page on this thread and there are three other AT pilots who seem to be just as pi$$ed off as me.

I go to work and transport people safely to their destination, but that's about it. You're damned right I've got an attitude about the situation! What did you expect to happen when our seniority and Cptn seats were ripped out from under us, not to mention taking home 20% less every month? Peaches and cream?

What's unbelievable is not my or any other AT pilots attitudes, but the fact that you or any other RSW pilot have the nerve to even open your mouths about any of this. If I was in your shoes (collectively as a whole), I'd be a little more humble, take the windfall that you got and be thankful for it. Arrogant, pompous _____s.

Follow PiisteOff and PCL and you won't have to be associated any longer.

I guess you should have shared this rant with your colleagues before 83% of them voted for the deal, now it's a moot point.

Lies, ultimatums and threats...that's how this integration was handled. Everyone involved knows that to be true. Resentment will never go away and my work ethic reflects it everyday.

SWAPA likes to blame management for the heavy handed tactics but let's not forget how a few hundred SWAPA pilots gathered in front of HQ "to stand in support of management" back in the summer of 2011 while our careers were being threatened. Phucken scumbags.

Yeah, that's it. F__k us over then tell us to cheer up or leave. Hello wound......meet salt. Oh the irony.

If not one AT pilot believed this to be a good deal (and in four years I have yet to find one), why did 83% vote for it? Because right or wrong they believed GK's threats of losing their jobs if they didn't vote for the second SLI.