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allesgut 12-08-2016 02:14 PM


Originally Posted by flyguy81 (Post 2256248)
That's laughable.

I've never been treated as terribly by another airline as I have by AA. Gate agents are rude and refuse to help you out. Pilots are great to talk to but generally won't go to bat for you if you're trying to jumpseat/non-rev since the gate agent rules the roost.

Oh my God, I've been treated awesome EVERYtime I JS on AA

SWA gate agents are generally good but I've run into gate agents that are as bad as anywhere.
And you cannot use AAconnect as your baseline example for getting treated poorly.

flyguy81 12-08-2016 02:59 PM


Originally Posted by allesgut (Post 2258899)
Oh my God, I've been treated awesome EVERYtime I JS on AA

SWA gate agents are generally good but I've run into gate agents that are as bad as anywhere.
And you cannot use AAconnect as your baseline example for getting treated poorly.

That's the codeshare I was operating during all my AA interactions so I've got no other example to go off of. All I know is the gate agents in ORD and STL suck....LGA wasn't much better, marginally so.

Tango Uniform 12-08-2016 07:42 PM

Those that think my original post was a "jab", it wasn't inter as such. To those who said it "trolling" it wasn't intended that way. I was just stating that the gate agents and flight attendants don't seem to be like they were. They were fun. Seemed to enjoy their jobs. Not all of them are like that. I'll watch some of them during boarding and they look at the passengers like they are the spawn of Satan. You would never see that during Herbs involvement.

The pilot group goes above an beyond. We all know Southwest is the official sponsor of Take Grandma to the Airport. I've seen so many pilots wheel passengers down the jetway. They go above and beyond.

Things like what the Southwest pilots do set them apart from other carriers. The morale and people at Southwest set them apart from the drones of other carriers. It seems like they are losing that. They are becoming like other carriers. Losing the identity that made Southwest great.

shoelu 12-09-2016 07:40 AM


Originally Posted by tomgoodman (Post 2256299)
Maybe the problem is like an empty spice rack: no Herb. ;)


Originally Posted by KPer (Post 2256408)
It ain't Herb's airline anymore that's for sure.

Many seem to assert that any problem associated with today's Southwest can be linked to Herbs departure. While I agree he was a visionary CEO with an uncanny ability to think outside of the box, it was a different airline when he stepped down as CEO in 2001.

Many of the changes at SWA can be attributed to nothing more than growth. In 2001 SWA employed 30,000. In 2016 Southwest has more than 52,000 employees. Maintaining any semblance of a "family" feeling becomes progressively more difficult as an airline nearly doubles in size.

Add in the complexity of introducing large congested airports and a limited international route structure and SWA begins to experience some of the maddening delays and problems inherent to a larger and more complex system.

I don't believe SWA has lost that luving feeling but I think most can understand that Southwest will begin to share more issues troubling the legacies as time marches on.

flyguy81 12-09-2016 09:47 AM


Originally Posted by Tango Uniform (Post 2259133)
Those that think my original post was a "jab", it wasn't inter as such. To those who said it "trolling" it wasn't intended that way. I was just stating that the gate agents and flight attendants don't seem to be like they were. They were fun. Seemed to enjoy their jobs. Not all of them are like that. I'll watch some of them during boarding and they look at the passengers like they are the spawn of Satan. You would never see that during Herbs involvement.

The pilot group goes above an beyond. We all know Southwest is the official sponsor of Take Grandma to the Airport. I've seen so many pilots wheel passengers down the jetway. They go above and beyond.

Things like what the Southwest pilots do set them apart from other carriers. The morale and people at Southwest set them apart from the drones of other carriers. It seems like they are losing that. They are becoming like other carriers. Losing the identity that made Southwest great.

That's a fair assessment. I think the protracted labor strife the last 3-4 years probably had a lot to do with it. Now that contracts are signed hopefully we can get back to the way it was (even if just a little bit...it'll never be the way it was in the 90's)

GingerDan 12-14-2016 08:26 AM


Originally Posted by shoelu (Post 2259352)
Many seem to assert that any problem associated with today's Southwest can be linked to Herbs departure. While I agree he was a visionary CEO with an uncanny ability to think outside of the box, it was a different airline when he stepped down as CEO in 2001.

Many of the changes at SWA can be attributed to nothing more than growth. In 2001 SWA employed 30,000. In 2016 Southwest has more than 52,000 employees. Maintaining any semblance of a "family" feeling becomes progressively more difficult as an airline nearly doubles in size.

Add in the complexity of introducing large congested airports and a limited international route structure and SWA begins to experience some of the maddening delays and problems inherent to a larger and more complex system.

I don't believe SWA has lost that luving feeling but I think most can understand that Southwest will begin to share more issues troubling the legacies as time marches on.

As a current SWA employee, I agree with this statement here the most. It's easy to hate the man at the top and say that he's no Herb. Well, he's not but you can't blame everything on him. The airline has been growing like crazy. I was hired 5 years ago, and there are employee numbers (for the entire company) that are more than 30 thousand higher than mine. It becomes more difficult to manage and our IT and scheduling departments haven't been able to keep up. We're having meltdowns, people are being rerouted on the most ridiculous trips, and our overall trip quality has suffered. We're seeing longer days, more ground time, and shorter overnights.

Contracts. Our ground personnel passed their TA at roughly 51%-49%. The pilots had a decent TA. The flight attendants TA passed at very small percentage with little to no changes. There is an extreme dissatisfaction with the FA union to the point that a recall has been started. There seems to be a big fight going on between the company and unions. Some unions won, some didn't. That could be a cause of some of the grumpiness.

When you are treated like family, are encouraged to have fun, and have a very long leash, you are a happier person. When you are treated more like an employee and have a short leash, you're less likely to be as happy and friendly. Just my observations.

Fly safe,

~ Dan

NYC Pilot 12-15-2016 03:27 PM

At the end of the day, it's a metal tube with a certain paint job and we are led to believe there is such a thing as an "airline family" .. It's just a business and we are employees who do a certain job n get paid.. You want a friend, get a dog or a cat.

Bootleg 12-17-2016 06:13 AM


Originally Posted by flyguy81 (Post 2256598)
In 10+ yrs flying AA Connection I can count on 1 hand the number of times a AA pilot refused to push until all the jumpseaters/nonrevs were on board. More times than I can count I've had AA guys try and circumvent the priority listing to get ahead of express guys on their own equipment with the excuse being, "I'm mainline and you're not".

The ONLY times I was treated as an equal on an AA plane was when the crew was TWA. They'd put you in 1st regardless of what seat the nAAzi gate agent gave you on a wide open flight, make sure you were taken care of by the FA's with food, and would make sure they didn't leave without you if they knew you were waiting to get on.

That's not to say there's not nAAtive pilots that aren't top notch....I just never ran into very many of them in ORD or LGA. Don't even get me started on the AAgents in STL...


I never ran into any at MIA,LAX, or DFW either.

Bootleg 12-17-2016 06:18 AM

...
 
Every Southwest pilot who ever jumpseated w/me couldn't have been more courteous or professional. It was always a pleasure to fly those guys home. While it's true-we didn't have much to offer on the SAAB, other than a nice safe ride home w/soft drink and pretzels, we were happy to do it.

You older a/a pricks could learn something here.

dawgdriver 12-17-2016 08:50 AM


Originally Posted by Bootleg (Post 2264504)
Every Southwest pilot who ever jumpseated w/me couldn't have been more courteous or professional. It was always a pleasure to fly those guys home. While it's true-we didn't have much to offer on the SAAB, other than a nice safe ride home w/soft drink and pretzels, we were happy to do it.

You older a/a pricks could learn something here.

For the most part, SWA HR must have their #hit together when it comes to hiring pilots. After years of jump-seating, I have yet to run in to a better class of people. Always helpful and cheerful.


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